D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

M2 related information in here please.
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D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:44 am

So last time I put something like this together (the Killing Time comparison post) it seemed well received, and since I have extra time on my hands lately, I thought..."why not". It's nowhere near as thorough as my Killing Time stuff I posted, but hopefully putting this here will help fill in the holes with someone elses information

so lets get on with it then

D2 for M2 - all the information I can find

So obviously D2 was slated for the ill-fated 3DO / Matsushita M2 hardware platform; we all know how well that went. Considering it was the first game announced for the platform, (if rumors online are to believed) it clearly had some lead time for development before the M2 project was scrapped altogether. Unfortunately, as we all are unfortunately well aware of, almost nothing of D2 remains. So I have compiled everything I can personally find / information I know into this one resource

Backstory : having owned the 3DO when it first came out, and having loved D, I as a kid could not wait for this game, and by extension the M2 to come out. It's my holy grail of lost video gaming

Story : Well this is an extremely loose interpritation, but going on the video posted at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XHD6vY9_0I, I figure the following

Transylvania; at some point during the rule of Vlad Tepes (1431–1476/77. Considering he appears in his middle age in the trailer, lets say)...Transylvania; 1460. Vlad Tepes, otherwise known as Vlad the Impaler, loses the one thing he holds dearest to him...his wife. Distraught at the loss, he spirals out of control, aching to fill the hole left in her absence. Through the use of some hidden knowledge from the pages of rare manuscripts, Vlad makes a deal with the other world: bring him a son and heir so that if he may not have a wife, he may at least have his lineage continued

Further conjecture : perhaps Vlad, as seen in the Warp trailer, loses his wife while she is pregnant, and now mourns the dual loss of his wife and unborn child. Through the use of magic he transports the unborn son of one of the members of his own family line (Laura, as seen on the plane in both the M2 and Dreamcast versions of D2, obviously with major storyline differences) back in time to heal his own pain

Ok, so for the details

Image (the man seen in the D2 trailer)

v.

Image

Minus Vlad's stylish use of a full beard in the D2 trailer, it's pretty obvious Kenji Eno and Warp were using Vlad Tepes as the inspiration for this character, if not making the character Vlad Tepes entirely. In conjunction, if you tie the original D and it's Japanese title (D's Dinner Table) and the fact that D's storyline directly references the bloodline and history of Dracula, it's quite easy to say Eno was fascinated with the entire Dracula mythos, and had continued to use this historical character for his original version of D2

Additionally

Image

Within the trailer for D2, we are shown a scene of multiple bodies impaled on stakes (I'll leave out the historical / art historical bit about where the pike entered/exited the body haha) in the exact same manner that Vlad Tepes (also known as Vlad the Impaler, important point here) executed his enemies

Add that all up : pretty safe bet that the character from Transylvania seen in the D2 / M2 trailer was in fact Vlad Tepes, and that he would be the central antagonist for the storyline of D2

NOTE : I do not speak / read a word of Japanese. In all my looking, I do not see a single instance of the kanji in this trailer having been translated to English. If we get this done, we could completely verify / refute my theory and/or learn what the text actually tells us about the game

More fun things :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmesm0azh8M

Actual gameplay and underlying engine code being spit out onto the screen. As far as I can tell, this is absolutely the only video of the game being playable (minus one very short clip showing Laura's son, now grown, jumping, at some game expo. I have seen it, can't find the link currently)

So we can at least say a playable version in fact existed, per the video and Eno saying the game was 50% complete at the time of it's cancellation

Less fun things :

Eno himself stated that even he no longer had any of the files associated with D2 for M2, so it's very safe to assume that unfortunately what exists online today is in fact the sum total of all D2 for M2 content

Interesting Questions:

Where did the gameplay video originally come from? I cannot track down where this footage was originally found. Any help would be greatly appreciated

The original 4:30 minute video of Vlad Tepes in Transylvania was unlocked by having a save game from the D2 Shock Demo for Dreamcast (packaged with Real Sound : Kaze No Regret) and then using the retail JPN D2 game, and the D2 Shock Demo save, to unlock the D2 for M2 video. I do not, however, know where the second portion (Laura on plane) came from, as it is not on my Dreamcast disc combos

So, was there another source for this footage? Some tape / trade show / preview source? I have zero idea...that's why I am asking

The magazine scans:

This is what I have found so far : Next Generation : 1/97. Originally posted by me

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I am not aware of any other mag scans : if you have them / know of them, please let me know

Fun little tidbits

There seem to be two distinct sources for the Vlad Tepes / Transylvania portion of the D2 for M2 trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XHD6vY9_0I#t=47

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nmy6XQSDr0#t=42

Not only do the sizes / colors of the video not match (and even with the source involved, or video coded used to compress, there would not be such a divergence of colors across two separate uploads...trust me, filmmaker for a living) but the audio does not sync together even if you sync both videos to the same frame and play simultaneously

So that's what I have kids. Hope you like it

NOTE : If anyone knows Japanese, or knows someone who KNOWS Japanese, I'd really love to have the text translated into English. I am sure someone out there can help with this

If anyone has any more info on D2 for M2, post it up. I'd love to hear more

and for a huge (M2 huge...considering there is such a lack of solid info) dump of D2 for M2 screenshots, go here

http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/07/d2-m2-cancelled/

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:16 am

and for more fun...

The following is a listing of D2 media, translated from the 1998 version of Warp-jp.com website. All the listings are press D2 had in video game magazines, and considering the years coincide with M2 development, if anyone can track these down, they might find something done

< Game magazine on sale now >

Weekly Saturn fan 11 / No. 28

D2 advertising spread Table 2 Warp

P.8 ~ from this Warp Warp emergency report Kenji Iino says "D2"

Weekly Sega Saturn Magazine 11/ 28 Issue

D2 advertising spread Table 2 Warp

P.122 ~ that quietly , talk about the steps to be warp Kenji Iino long interview next

Weekly Famitsu - 11 / No. 28

Game creator of three appeared to P.9 school festival of warp Osaka Electro-Communication University

Warp D2 advertising P.20

Monthly Comic Beam December

Warp D2 advertising Table 3

Monthly digital media insider December

D2 advertising spread Table 2 Warp

D2 advertising spread Table 2 Warp

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by rewak » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:41 pm

We're gonna end up cross posting on 2 forums with this

The intro takes place in Transylvania and tells the story of a count with no heir. He sacrifices people to the gods (all the people on the pikes) in an effort to conceive an heir but the only result is his wife dies. He turns to magic and strikes a deal with a demon for a son in return for his soul. The demon steals Lauras child from her womb and transports him to the count.

The 10 minute video came from a Japanese 3DO demo disc, and there's a lot of other magazine scans. For a little while this was the only M2 game publicly shown, had to put some pictures in with the articles trying to sell it. There was even ads running for it in Japanese magazines. All the magazines you just listed about though are referring to the Dreamcast version of D2.

Here's 2 other videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1PdgtNLjw0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTNUwEPtN9U

I have pictures that aren't on Unseen64 too but i need to go through them and organise them, all my D related stuff is strewn across bunches of folders, i've been lazy in getting them into some order.

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:42 pm

Awesome, thanks for the extra. That's what I was hoping for when I posted this (esp the videos. I'd seen them before but couldn't find anymore)...that other people with other thoughts / info would pop in

On the press listing, I couldn't find anything that pre-dated that list. Then again I was doing it through google translate and archive.org

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by rewak » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:59 pm

Image dump

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by 3DO Experience » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:28 am

:shock:
"Wait. You don't have a bag of charcoal in your gaming room???"

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:04 pm

Really interesting stuff : thanks for all that man

From the extra screenshots, I am getting the distinct sense that only three areas of the game were actually playable. It seems like every media source shows either A) the interior of a house/castle, at or near a fireplace (shown in the beta movie as well) b) the outside courtyard with statue (also shown in beta video) and C) what I am calling the "red vertical tower" that appears in the 40 second next gen mag video, as well as these screenshots.

Short of those three settings (minus the prerendered cgi videos) I have not personally seen any content in an alternate setting. Your new screenshots clearly shed light on that

Very interesting there are shots of the wireframe renders of the game as well. That's new to me

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by rewak » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:59 pm


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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:32 pm

Interesting interview...wishing the subtitle option was available on youtube for it

The two jumping videos are obviously from the same Tokyo Game Show, considering the content and the yellow and red striped background. Really wish there was more of these...will have to keep looking

Thanks a ton rewak...I (and I am sure everyone else) appreciates your contributions to the thread. I'd love to be able to compile everything D2/M2 related in one thread, just for posterity. Some of the videos you found I was unable to no matter what I searched, so it's appreciated

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:40 pm

What I also find really interesting, from the Eno interview link...is the last of the three options loaded at the end of the video, which shows a render of Laura holding the glass

Image

it's obviously not Laura from D

Image

Considering the hair style...improved character model, and most importantly the clothing she is wearing

But it is a cgi

So it begs the question...was Laura involved in the storyline of D2 for M2, outside of dying on the plane?

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by rewak » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:15 pm

The picture above that render in the image dump post i made is Laura too (wearing the same outfit if you look close) with the demon presence, so she probably was. Remember the whole plot of D was that Laura was a blood descendant of Dracula so technically her son would be a blood relative of the counts (if the count is Dracula, which he probably is), which is probably why he was chosen. Maybe being part drac meant Laura could die but then be undead so she'd survive the crash, maybe if the count is Dracula it meant the demon couldn't claim his soul and set to work against him by going to Laura before she even fell pregnant. Many possibilities, shame we'll probably never know. It might be worth pointing out that although the Laura in the Dreamcasts D2 is a different Laura, there are hints that at one point they were meant to be the same so maybe the logic of her surviving a plane crash crossed over.

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:38 pm

I'd tend to agree. Considering Laura survived the plane crash in the Dreamcast version, it's certainly plausible she did in the M2 version as well. How she got back in time? deLorean I'm sure!

That's why I wish at least the story survived. Obviously at this point no beta exists, or if it does, is squirreled away for basically forever. A plot summary would be best

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by rewak » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:34 pm

There's probably a plot outline in some archive somewhere and someone working on it might remember what it was, but you never really know if that would be 100% accurate with Kenji. I mean D was just a puzzler whilst he secretly worked away on the plot parts of the game and none of the team knew they were in there until the game released. The person to ask would have been him, but sadly he isn't with us anymore. There may be more info out there somewhere though, i know Kenji published a few books around the development of D2-M2, sadly all text and all in Japanese so i've no idea what's in them. There's 3DO magazines published in Japan i've never seen that might have more plot specific info or maybe even more screenshots. Just about hoping and waiting :)

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:21 am

found a few interesting quotes from Eno himself

In regards to how far the game progressed before being cancelled : "When I found out about this new hardware called M2 - it was very powerful - I was thinking that I would finally have a chance to make a complete real-time 3D action game, an action game that has the characters battle with swords. So I was about 50 percent finished with development - my programmer had completed the battle engine, and I was expanding the maps and all that - and then the hardware got cancelled."

That development was cancelled once to restart the entire game : "D2 will be released on the M2, not on other platforms. Maybe on PC, but no other consoles. It's basically all real-time polygons. To tell you the truth, however, we decided to start from scratch last month. The M2 specs will be better than the current one, so this was our last chance to change things. Also, if we continued developing what we were working on, by the time we were done the game wouldn't be current for today. We didn't want to release something like Resident Evil or Alone in the Dark. We wanted to release a real-time polygon adventure game that felt like the old PC game, Into the Sudden Shadow"

and the plot synopsis, from GameFan and Eno : "Basically, the story begins about a year after D. Laura's on a plane somewhere and she's pregnant... Hmm... Actually, the story starts before this, during the Middle Ages. There was a feudal lord in Transylvania who desperately wanted a child to take over his country. He believed in the local superstitions that said that you could have child by sacrificing people by impaling them on stakes. The local people began to call him the Impaler King. Of course this was nothing but superstition, and he had no child. When his wife died, he became so desperate that he learned black magic and summoned the devil. He begged the devil to give him a child, that he would sacrifice his own life for one. The devil agreed and left Transylvania. The scene will change to the one I was telling you about before, the plane in 1997. The devil appears, surrounds the plane, and tries to crash it. Then he kidnaps Laura's baby. You can tell the baby disappears, because Laura's stomach becomes hollow. I think Laura dies in the plane too... The scene changes back to the Middle Ages and the crying of the baby fades in... That's the opening story. The main character of the game is Laura's child. When the child grows up, the devil returns to Transylvania to come calling for the Impaler King's life, and destroys the castle. The child then takes off for the adventure to kill the devil."

(our guesses weren't too far off)

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:28 am

Here's a few more screenshots for fun

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:29 am

plus a few even tinier ones from an M2 article

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by NikeX » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:32 pm

Very nice compilation!

By the way the old egomanical srewball has uploaded some old - but interesting D2 movies (naturally pure random!).
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaqe1xD ... ture=watch
he's active at least under one pseudonym over at assembler.
Some collectors are really a very strange clique. The years pass, but the guys never change.

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by awbacon » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:41 pm

yeah I actually noticed the videos uploaded...there seems to be a bit of extra footage, and that weird splash intro? Cant figure out the source of the footage at all

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by rewak » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:53 am

My guess is the footage is sourced from a VHS, perhaps sent to magazines? I doubt someone has actual playable code, i think even Eno mentioned somewhere that the code was probably lost.

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Re: D2 / M2 - Info dump and other musings

Post by dave4shmups » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:42 pm

Here's 2 parts of the 1995 E3 3DO press conference that have some M2 game footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeyucnjf7YE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2tnKdmvG2E

I love the 3DO, and I really wish that the M2 had been released and been successful!

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