3DO ZONE Forums

So after putting up the magazine's rather strange choices for the 3DO, backed up with 3DOKid's knowledge that the person putting it together didn't actually research too hard into the so-called Perfect Ten, here's the ones they've selected for the Jaguar.

I have absolutely no idea what these games are actually like, having never owned a Jaguar, but I'm looking forward to seeing what owners of the big cat think.

Unlike the 3DO list these came numbered, but there was no indication that they were being ranked, I think instead it was simply a matter of putting numbers next to them for show in a "Perfect Ten" list, rather than saying some were better than others.

Here you go then:

-------------

“Atari’s Jaguar had so much untapped potential that it pains us to see it so openly scorned by the majority of gamers nowadays. Those in the know however are fully aware of the great games the system boasted and here is a choice selection for to go out and play.

01 BATTLESPHERE (2000)
Published by: Scatalogic Inc
Created by: 4Play
By the same developer: Scatbox Hardware Accessory
The epic space opera Battlesphere is a triumphant example of what the Jaguar is truly capable of. It’s filled with clever references to popular sci-fi creations, and you choose one of seven known intergalactic races (including humans), before being placed in a fully 3D sphere of space and battling it out to become champion. Visually nothing short of stunning, the dynamic AI also impresses, and for a time was unsurpassed. It’s also one of the few games that supports u to 32 simultaneous human players over a network (although you’re going to have to find a convention in order to experience this). As a kind gesture, all profits from sales of the game were donated to charity.

02 PROTECTOR SE (2002)
Published by: Songbird Productions
Created by: In-house
By the same developer: Protector
If you’re looking for a superb update of Defender, it’s this excellent offering form Songbird Productions that you should be searching out and not Jeff Minter’s Defender 2000. The graphics truly are stunning and feature some of the best 2D visuals we’ve ever seen on Atari’s 64-bit console, hell, any console from that time period for that matter. Sound is also excellent, with a great array of sampled voices and some rocking tunes that perfectly capture the frantic on-screen action. Insanely fast, full of excitement and sporting some very nifty power-ups, this is a perfect example of twitch gaming and deserves to be in every Jaguar owner’s collection. If you’re a fan of Eugene Jarvis’s (sic) original game or just love a good blaster, pick it up. You’re not going to be disappointed.

03 TEMPEST 2000 (1994)
Published by: Atari
Created by: Jeff Minter
By the same developer: Defender 2000
Jeff Minter’s Tempest 2000 is justification enough for picking up Atari’s ill-fated console. Beautiful to look at, incredible to listen to, witnessing Tempest 2000 in action is the equivalent of having a synapse explode in your brain, such is the impact of Minter’s masterpiece. Forget the incredibly poor port of the original arcade game that has been included and just concentrate on spending all your time with Tempest Duel, a gripping death match for two players; and of course, the stupendously good Tempest 2000. With new enemies, the ability to jump, a selection of smart power-ups, scintillating sound and those eye-melting visuals, this is perhaps Minter on his finest form. Luckily this is one of the most common Jaguar games available, so it won’t cost you an arm or a leg.

04 GORF CLASSIC (CD) (2006)
Published by: 3D Stooges
Created by: Jamie Fenton
By the same developer: NA
The original arcade version of Gorf was developed by Jamie Fenton and released in 1981, featuring five progressive and very different levels, as well as several digitised voice samples that heckled the player. The Jaguar CD port by 3D Stooges, which was created after the system’s unfortunate demise and rekindled the development community, has the honour of being the only arcade-perfect port to home systems that has all five of the original levels (due to licensing issues, the third Galaxian level was normally removed). Unfortunately, due to popularity and a low print run, this is now fairly rare and expensive on eBay, so if you intend to track it down, make sure you’re carrying a full wallet. Gorf Classic is a fun and frantic shooter that you’ll return to again and again.

05 IRON SOLDIER I/II (1994-7)
Published by: Katari/Telegames
Created by: Eclipse Software
By the same developer: NA
We’re mentioning both Iron Soldier I and II as they’re perfect examples of what the Jaguar and Jaguar CD could do in capable hands. Both titles require you to storm around in a huge mech and lay waste to whatever is foolish (or unfortunate) enough to get in your way. Each game features expansive environments (although the CD version has greatly improved visuals and a storming soundtrack), a variety of well-structured missions and some of the most amazing explosions in any Jaguar game. Some may baulk at the slow pace of both games, but with so much to learn (Iron Soldier II boasts even more controls than the already comprehensive original) you’ll actually be glad you have some time to think.

06 ALIENS VS PREDATOR (1994)
Published by: Atari
Created by: Rebellion
By the same developer: Sniper Elite
Never mind the fact that Aliens Vs Predator was released a good 12 months after being a supposed launch title, it was a landmark game for both the Jaguar and first-person shooters in general, thus making it more than worth the wait. While AVP boasted spectacular visuals, which still impress today, it was the sound that truly impressed. With no music, creators Rebellion used a selection of screams, explosions and gunshots to punctuate the silence of each well-constructed stage. It was in the gameplay that AVP truly excelled though, and while the floaty controls could be annoying, the different attributes of the three main protagonists - human, alien or predator - and strategic gameplay more than made up for it.

07 HIGHLANDER (CD) (1995)
Published by: Atari
Created by: Lore Design Limited
By the same developer: NA
The Jaguar and CD add-on were starved of traditional adventures and RPGs (the only other notable exception being Towers II, though that’s a fairly boring dungeon crawler). So adventures like Highlander, which was exclusive to the system, are something to get very excited about indeed. Based not on the films franchise - which was killed by three totally unnecessary sequels - but rather the animated TV series, you play Quentin MacLeod on his quest against rogue immortal Kortan. Controls are comparable to Resident Evil; you’re able to defeat enemies using fists, swords, or a gun while searching for items that allow progress. Highly recommended, the only problem is needing a MemoryTrack peripheral in order to save. A unique and enjoyable title that’s well worth tracking down.

08 RAYMAN (1995)
Published by: Ubisoft
Created by: In-house
By the same developer: King Kong
Decent plat formers are few and far between on Atari’s Jaguar, so when a title with the quality of Rayman comes along you can’t really afford to miss it. Originally created exclusively for Atari’s machine (it was later ported to the Playstation and other consoles like the Saturn) Michael Ancel’s platformer still looks sumptuous and boasts some utterly stunning locations. Filled with layer upon layer of parallax scrolling and beautiful, hand-drawn sprites it’s an amazing technical achievement and perfectly shows off previous claims about the Jaguar’s 2D power. Despite the game’s toughness there’s no denying the adorability of Rayman and it’s little wonder that Michael Ancel’s creation is still appearing in games today. Indeed, Ubisoft even released a couple for Nintendo’s Wii.

09 BI/WN (CD) (2004)
Freely released by: Beej West (Developer)
Created by: Atari
By the same developer: Donkey Kong
Black Ice/White Noise was not officially released due to being cancelled before completion, but since it was such an ambitious title and because the beta can be freely downloaded online, we thought it must be mentioned. Having read he full and unedited Jagwire interviews with the developers, its history alone warrants several articles. The team has a unique vision, which today is a cross between Shadowrun without magic (or, more accurately Neuromancer) and GTA III. Players would have been able to traverse a massive cityscape while completing missions, riding vehicles, shooting police, hacking computer networks, talking with NCPs, and so on. Sadly, among other things, overly high ambitions killed the project.

10 MISSILE COMMAND 3D (1995)
Published by: Atari
Created by: Virtuality
By the same developer: N/A
Despite the Jaguar’s VR Headset never getting released, Atari saw fit to release Missile Command 3D, which featured a VR version of the game few Jaguar owners will have been able to play. Apart from this obvious oversight, the VR version in particular is great fun to play and gives you a clear example of just how immersive the game would have actually been. Starting off in an underwater base, you’ll soon progress above ground and into space itself. All the while missiles are furiously raining down on you and despite the first-person viewpoint it perfectly captures the essence of the original game. Speaking of the original, Virtuality also included it, but as with the Tempest seen in Tempest 2000, it was a far from perfect port."

-------------

So how does this stack up against what they chose for the 3DO...?

So, 1/2 of the perfect ten games weren't even around during the consoles life ...

AVP, Tempest & Missle Command are all deserving imho. Rayman perhaps, but the "toughness" is hard to overlook.

Some of the Jags best games are actually ports (Flashbak, NBA Jam, Pinball Fantasies, Soccer Kid, etc...)

Can't comment much on the homebrew stuff, but I don't think a beta belongs on the list.

While I agree most of those are good games, I also think it's weird most are not in the console's active life.

Rayman is a given. Jaguar first.

Highlander is terrible though.

Super Burnout belongs on there.

I don't think there's anything wrong with celebrating some homebrew games if they really are that fantastic, but to have such a high number of them here is indeed strange! Are they saying they really couldn't find more top quality Jaguar games from its lifetime?? I never had one, but I'm sure that can't be right.

And a game in beta stage should definitely not be on a list like this!

Hmm, I really can't stand the fact that Black Ice/White Noise is on this list. I am a huge Jaguar fan, as most of you know, but this game isn't even half complete. It crashes all the time and even though, very cool in concept, the game just isn't even close to finished, so how this is a perfect 10 game is beyond me. Also, the comment on Towers II is debatable. Many in the Jaguar community love the game, so calling it a "Boring Dungeon Crawler" is preposterous when you are mentioning it in the same breath as trying to convince most of the community that Highlander is a perfect game. I also have to ask where Battlemorph is on this list? Awesome game for the Jaguar CD that really showed quite a bit of what the ill fated add on was capable of doing. The underwater parts of the levels alone are still fan favorites of the Jaguar on their own. Then you also have other "Cult Classics" like I-War, Super Burnout, Power Drive Rally and Ultra Vortek which are missing, as well as the Jaguar ports of Flashback, Pitfall, Syndicate, and NBA Jam Tournament Edition. Note that many believe that NBA Jam: TE on the Jaguar is one of the best home versions of the game, period. Also, if you want homebrews on the list, where is Sky Hammer? Oh, and what the Hell happened to Breakout 2000 and the excellent port of Worms to the Jaguar? I don't know, I appreciate the fact that it's positive press for the Jaguar, but it's the wrong kind as the guy really doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.

On a side note though, it is nice to see that Tempest 2000, AVP, Rayman,Missile Command 3D, and Iron Soldier are on the list. Still, you have Protector SE and mention that it's a great update to Defender, but where is Defender 2000 on the list? I know I am missing something, but this is just an example.

Ok just read your post... I can't believe Black ICE\White Noise is on there! Yes it could have been an awesome game, could have been! The damn thing was barely playable! It would have been monumental had it been finished but it was a long way from that.

Pretty half-assed list if you ask me. Where's Wolfenstein or DOOM? NBA JAM TE? Battlemorph?

@T2K: Towers II seems to have sort of a love-hate thing going for it in the community. I'm on the love side though even though I could never finish it. Once you figure out what you are supposed to be doing, it's a nice game (Wish I never sold mine, seeing what they go for these days..).

We could make a better list ...

All right guys, time to create our own magazine!

I know what to put on the cover...

I don't wish to defend retro gamer magazine, not least of all because they haven't ever covered much of what i'm interested in. You Nintendo/Sega fans would probably love the mag though:)

...but you can search the web and find a generic top 10 of games for any console. At least they put some interesting stuff in their top tens. If they do an IGN/MSN style top 10, it would be pretty dull right?

1. AVP.
2. Rayman.
3. Iron Soldier
4. Battlesphere.

blah, blah,blah...

The very fact Black Ice is in there means something in my book. People see a top 10 and get upset because it doesn't agree with their top 10. well....

I've generally been a Nintendo fan for a while now, (since about a year before the Gamecube, when I got my first GBA and have bought every hardware release - almost - since) and I'm cancelling my subscription to the mag. Apart from the occassional feature of interest (recently they had a brilliant one on collecting N64 games and hardware, then one of the C64, which I own along with my 3DOs) it's just not worth the money. Apart from those 2 issues there's been nothing this past year I could say I was enthralled by.

The problem is that retro gamers usually stick with 1 or 2 machines. Maybe some would have a few more, but the magazine has to cover all bases and while sometimes an article on an odscure machine might be an interesting read, in general about 95% of it is simply not interesting to me.

As for the "Nintendo fan thing", that may change as my eyes don't like the glasses-less 3D (glasses-3D is fine) and I'm not convinced that, after years of banging on about the precision of motion control and the depth it can bring when done right (which didn't happen much outside Ninty themselves!), they've decided to go with a huge pad and duel analogue now. We'll see...

Dactyl Joust would have been a better choice if we are talking unreleased games.

3DwhO wrote:I've generally been a Nintendo fan for a while now, (since about a year before the Gamecube, when I got my first GBA and have bought every hardware release - almost - since) and I'm cancelling my subscription to the mag. Apart from the occassional feature of interest (recently they had a brilliant one on collecting N64 games and hardware, then one of the C64, which I own along with my 3DOs) it's just not worth the money. Apart from those 2 issues there's been nothing this past year I could say I was enthralled by.

The problem is that retro gamers usually stick with 1 or 2 machines. Maybe some would have a few more, but the magazine has to cover all bases and while sometimes an article on an odscure machine might be an interesting read, in general about 95% of it is simply not interesting to me.

As for the "Nintendo fan thing", that may change as my eyes don't like the glasses-less 3D (glasses-3D is fine) and I'm not convinced that, after years of banging on about the precision of motion control and the depth it can bring when done right (which didn't happen much outside Ninty themselves!), they've decided to go with a huge pad and duel analogue now. We'll see...

The first Nintendo console I owned was the N64. I spent two hours trying to clear up the picture and then i took it back, quite innocently, claiming it had a dodgy RF modulator. They seemed convinced, because they did swap it. On getting home and trying the new one, i thought the TV was broken. Of cause it wasn't...

The Gamecube however, I thought it was okay. I enjoyed Chibi Robo, Pikmin 1 & 2. Paper Mario 2 was awesome and obviously so was Resident Evil 4, and I always admired the beauty of Ikaruga, although I didn't rate it as a SHUMP.

Nintendo seemed hell bent on getting shut of me as a fan however because the Wii is obsessed with Mario Galaxy and Zelda. And despite spending hundreds of pounds on Zelda games, and Mrs Kids protestations that they are good games, I find them tear jerkingly boring.

I also lack the emotion bond to Nintendo some people seem to have.

I've enjoyed the Mario games since I was a kid and adored the Mario Sunshine game that came with the GCN I got. The water effects were spellbinding! I searched every inch of the water around that island, it was that amazing to see and play in, and for some reason they haven't repeated that on the Wii, even though it's meant to be a slightly more powerful machine.

I'll respectfully disagree about the Zelda games lol, although I just can't get into the handheld versions at all, no mater how much I try to. To me Zelda has to be on the big screen and in 3D. In that regard I also can't get into the retro Zelda games. The Wind Waker on GCN just amazed me, this living cartoon of a game really swept me into it, the first Zelda game I really played properly and emotionally the ending really hit me. I felt like an idiot at the time but I'm man enough to admit it now lol. Twilight Princess was fantastic too, and it's just as well we don't share a house lol, cause for both these games I had to try to finish as many of the sidequests as possible, so the games took me an age to complete!

Mario Galaxy was fantastic, don't get me wrong it truly is an amazing game, but it just didn't have the same addiction for me that Sunshine did. Maybe because Sunshine was my first proper 3D Mario game.

Eternal Darkness on the Wii was also a fave, as was Dakar 2, Burnout 2, Paper Mario 2, Harvest Moon, Metroid Prime (fave game ever!), Animal Crossing (when it was original), Mario Golf, Mario Kart Double Dash and yes the aforementioned Resi 4. I have to say, as much as I've loved the Wii (in particular Metroid Prime Trilogy, Mario Kart Wii, Cursed Mountain and of course the many games that have made up amazing multiplayer nights (Mario & Sonic in particular), the GCN still remains my fave. It's only recently that I've become used to using a regular pad again thanks to the 3DOs and I've got back into my GCN as a result. As my first Nintendo home console proper, it will always be my fave, the lineup of games was truly great. I've never owned as many games for a console of any kind.

I think in so far as Zelda is concerned, the world is split. Those that agree with me and those that don't.

Everyone should play Iron Soldier mind you. Everyone.

My first Nintendo was the NES and Zelda was one of my favorite games. I have to say that I prefer the 2D Zeldas to the 3D ones. I just seem to get bored with them as it seems to be more aiming than puzzle solving. At least the adventure is still there BUT Wind Waker really turned me off as I would spend days on a task and in the end would get nothing in return but a lack of bombs, money and life. But yes Zelda games should have a big screen and that's why I bought a GameBoy Player.

I bought Eternal Darkness for the GameCube and it was even better than Nintendo Power make it out to be. It's still one of my favorite games for that console.

3DO Experience wrote:I bought Eternal Darkness for the GameCube and it was even better than Nintendo Power make it out to be. It's still one of my favorite games for that console.

It was so original! And really did creep me out, as well as jumping out of my skin with that bath scene! I bought it and Mario Sunshine with my GCN, so had a brilliant, jaw-dropping start to a brilliant console

OMG the bathtub!!! Reminds me of videos like this.

none of the modern Nintendo consoles would really cause you to get on board the Fanyboy train.

It's the people that grew up on NES, GB, and GBA.

3DO Experience wrote:OMG the bathtub!!! Reminds me of videos like this.

Hahah you're not catching me out there lol, I've seen it That bathroom scene seriously made me jump, but there were so many other clever parts to freak us out - your head blowing up after casting a health spell, the telephone ringing, the game "crashing" and let's not forget the cockroach which looked like it was crawling up the outside of the TV screen haha. Such a game!

sneth wrote:none of the modern Nintendo consoles would really cause you to get on board the Fanyboy train.

It's the people that grew up on NES, GB, and GBA.

Respectfully I completely disagree. While many became fans early, it was the GCN which was the machine which put me on the fan train, and I've seen the Wii and DS turn friends of mine into rabid fanboys (and girls) Each generation of hardware creates new Nintendo fans who in years to come will look back at the old-fashioned retro Wii and DS (for example) systems they grew up with.

The GC brought me back to Nintendo after I (sorta) passed over the N64

I've liked every Zelda game I've played to varying degrees (except the 2nd one) but Wind Waker is my absolute favorite!

I have not had as much fun w/my Wii as I did (and still do) w/my GC. Thankfully though, the Wii has backwards compatibility, instant Netflix, and (as much as I try to fight it) Virtual Console.

Trev wrote:The GC brought me back to Nintendo after I (sorta) passed over the N64

I've liked every Zelda game I've played to varying degrees (except the 2nd one) but Wind Waker is my absolute favorite!

I have not had as much fun w/my Wii as I did (and still do) w/my GC. Thankfully though, the Wii has backwards compatibility, instant Netflix, and (as much as I try to fight it) Virtual Console.

We never got Netflix (or the UK equivalent) over here, nor that cool photographic channel they got in Japan where you could order up printed albums. We just had the normal Photo Channel, which is cool and I've used quite a bit, but still...

I was always the first to say that I always played my Wii, especially with so many others saying they didn't play their's anymore, but I've found I haven't played it in about 4 months now. Actually considering selling it, buying a purple GCN (I've my mate's black one here, but I used to love my purple one ... oo-er!) and a handful of the best games, as since buying the 3DO I've got used to joypads again and am really enjoying playing the old games again.

The only game still to come that I'd like is Skyward Sword, but IF I get Wii U it's backwards compatible anyway so I can play it then. I think I'd rather sell the Wii for now and have the extra dosh sitting in my account for a rainy day. My GCN and 3DOs have, by far, become my main systems now.

Why is it, whenever we, and when I say 'We' i mean everyone but me, talk about Nintendo, there is an air, ...an air that excludes me, even though this forum is my ship, from the conversation, and all i hear is mutiny. At best. Why? The love for Nintendo runs deep here -- doesn't it?

BTW: I love everyone. even though often we have differing opinions and you don't love me. Just so we are clear.

The later you come onto the Nintendo train, the less you get it.

You must be too young to have experienced the NES. I guess the UKV lineup was not the same at the US as well.

Yes, the love for Nintendo does run deep here.

lets see... the cartridge goes in the system and the system goes...

3DO Experience wrote:Yes, the love for Nintendo does run deep here.

Damn 3DO Experience, I knew you had a thing for Nintendo, but...

That thought crossed my mind briefly ... but that gameroom is far to neat to be 3DOExp's.

Not normally purple are they?