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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:47 pm 
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I have been playing a bit of Primal Rage because I like it and couldn't get anything going on this round of the PR HS contest on AA.

There seem to be a few hit detection bugs in it as well as some other things. Backgrounds not lined up and sound not synced up and combos missing etc. Tons of signs of a rush job.
Also just got through reading a couple days ago the complaints on Sega-16 about the MKII versions they did for both the Saturn and 32x.

Looking on Wikipedia these guys seem to have done all the home ports for MKII for everything. I can't remember details I will have to look at it again but their plate was REALLY full. They got the job of porting damn near everything to damn near everything else. Maybe they were rushed or just wanted their contracts done so did a sloppy job?

What do you guys think?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:20 pm 
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Funnily enough, I thought it was Sculptured Software that did the SNES ports of MK & MKII?

MKII, dodgy vocal samples aside, was absolutely superb! 8)

I'll agree that the Saturn version, whilst not completely terrible, was a very sloppy/disappointing port. I believe that the PS1 port (is it JPN only?) is similarly afflicted, but I don't own it to confirm personally.

Sorry to hear that PR for JagCD is a sloppy one. Especially as I believe it is pretty rare/expensive too. More of a collectors rarity I guess, huh?

How does it stack up next to the 3DO port then? Do you happen know?

(p.s. I'm no authority in Primal Rage ports I'm afraid! I only own the 3DO & SAT versions)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:49 pm 
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I remember that. I think sculptured software did do the MKI and MKII ports. Probe did tons of ports though. If you look on Wikipedia they seemed overloaded.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:51 am 
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For some reason I'm on a Primal Rage kick. I can't stop thinking about this game. I work at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry on Fridays and we have a dino exhibit I am working in and maybe that is whats causing it. Or maybe I'm just in a fighting game mood.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:14 pm 
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NeoGeoNinja wrote:
Sorry to hear that PR for JagCD is a sloppy one. Especially as I believe it is pretty rare/expensive too. More of a collectors rarity I guess, huh?

How does it stack up next to the 3DO port then? Do you happen know?


We have actually talked about this extensively in the 3DO section and also tore it apart at the now defunct JSII. Honestly, many of us really liked the 3DO version better as the load times were quicker than the Jaguar CD version as well as smoother animation and better color blending and the like. The moves are much easier to pull off too, especially if you have the Soldier Pad for the 3DO. For some reason, the sound is much cleaner as well. I wish someone would do a side by side of the games playing so that people could really see the differences between them. There really is a pretty good difference. We also were able to find instances where the guys at Atari had admitted how embarrassed they were that a port of an Atari arcade game ended up better on the rivals system than their own at the time. I don't know who handled the port of the 3DO version for Goldstar, but they did a quality job.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:52 pm 
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I was thinking about this and someone somewhere mentioned that they believed it was lack of memory that was the reason Probe made the Jaguar characters so small. Well the 3do has the same amount of memory as the PSX/Saturn and the characters/sprites are about the same size as the Jaguar version.

Not to mention Mr. Sax in Bandland on the Jaguars version of Rayman takes up most of the screen in thousands of colors. I don't think they could of done that but I think they could of done better. If they had done an overall quality job then I could of given them the benefit of the doubt but it just seems they were lazy. And the higher profile the system was they were going to port the game to the harder they seemed to try. Also in an interview with Time Warner about porting PR they were totally bashing the Jag. And giving out the misinfo that Atari was saying two 32bit processors equals 64bits. This is right before the interview where Sam Tramiel says that TWI and Atari were 'good friends' or somesuch.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:24 pm 
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So now I'm on a kick where I'm playing Primal Rage on the Jaguar then later on some MKII on the Saturn, Both done by the same dudes. PR is an easier game. But MKII is still a little bit more fun to play.

With all the complaints of overall sloppy ports of MKII that Probe did to most every Next Gen console of the time all Atari needed was one good developer to do a kick ass job of bringing MKII to the system(HVS perhaps?) and it would of boosted the Jags rep quite a bit.

Ah well shoulda woulda coulda.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:22 pm 
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Look at that! On Primal Rage I just caught a Pteradactyl (background object) going in front of a foreground object(Blizzard) during a fight. I don't know if that is a bug or some attempt at 3D lol.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:45 am 
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T2KFreeker wrote:
NeoGeoNinja wrote:
Sorry to hear that PR for JagCD is a sloppy one. Especially as I believe it is pretty rare/expensive too. More of a collectors rarity I guess, huh?

How does it stack up next to the 3DO port then? Do you happen know?


We have actually talked about this extensively in the 3DO section and also tore it apart at the now defunct JSII. Honestly, many of us really liked the 3DO version better as the load times were quicker than the Jaguar CD version as well as smoother animation and better color blending and the like. The moves are much easier to pull off too, especially if you have the Soldier Pad for the 3DO. For some reason, the sound is much cleaner as well. I wish someone would do a side by side of the games playing so that people could really see the differences between them.


Here's the next best thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:59 am 
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T2KFreeker wrote:
NeoGeoNinja wrote:
Sorry to hear that PR for JagCD is a sloppy one. Especially as I believe it is pretty rare/expensive too. More of a collectors rarity I guess, huh?

How does it stack up next to the 3DO port then? Do you happen know?


We have actually talked about this extensively in the 3DO section and also tore it apart at the now defunct JSII. Honestly, many of us really liked the 3DO version better as the load times were quicker than the Jaguar CD version as well as smoother animation and better color blending and the like. The moves are much easier to pull off too, especially if you have the Soldier Pad for the 3DO. For some reason, the sound is much cleaner as well. I wish someone would do a side by side of the games playing so that people could really see the differences between them. There really is a pretty good difference. We also were able to find instances where the guys at Atari had admitted how embarrassed they were that a port of an Atari arcade game ended up better on the rivals system than their own at the time. I don't know who handled the port of the 3DO version for Goldstar, but they did a quality job.


Its not 'tore up' its just not what it should of been. It is still a very good fighter. And probably the best on the Jaguar. I'm going to look up PR combos.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:39 pm 
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With Probe, it was probably a case of having too much on their plate on top of having to rush their projects to meet deadlines.

I don't recall Primal Rage on the 3DO being much better than the Jag version. TBH, they were more or less the same thing if I'm remembering right. The framerate might be a tiny bit better in the 3DO one, but it's still lacking in itself (I did a let's play on it a few months back). The Jag version does have slightly longer load times. Characters are still small in both versions. Could be argued that the playability is better in the 3DO one, but that's a controller preference thing, not something entirely objective. That, and the Jag has the Pro Controller, which nixes that argument completely.

The best console port of Primal Rage was the Saturn version. Smoothest animation of the bunch, largest sprites, etc. PS1 version comes next, with a lot of animation frames missing, but it still plays great. 3DO version is next, with the Jag version about on the same level. Overall the PC version is the best home port (ironically, I think that was done by Probe as well.. I'll have to double check on that). Not sure why I just wrote that last paragraph, but I like Primal Rage a lot as well, haha. Played 'em all quite a bit.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:12 pm 
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I think I already said this but it seems that the higher the profile the system the game was going to be ported to the more effort they put into it. Just memory wise there is no reason why the 3do version should be any different than the psx and saturn. And I think the 3do has plenty of oomph to move big sprites adequately.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:42 pm 
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a31chris wrote:
And I think the 3do has plenty of oomph to move big sprites adequately.


Based on actual similar games available on the 3DO, I think that's wishful thinking.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:50 pm 
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Austin wrote:
a31chris wrote:
And I think the 3do has plenty of oomph to move big sprites adequately.


Based on actual similar games available on the 3DO, I think that's wishful thinking.


Really? Are there not games with big 2D sprites on them for the 3do? Those sprites are only a little bigger than the 16 bit versions.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:20 am 
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a31chris wrote:
Really? Are there not games with big 2D sprites on them for the 3do? Those sprites are only a little bigger than the 16 bit versions.


You're forgetting there is still a lot of frames of animation in those small sprites (which the 16-bit and 32X versions mostly lack). Your comparison of RAM with the other contemporary platforms (PS1, Saturn) is kind of moot as well. What kind of RAM does each system have? Is the 3DO's exactly the same? What about other technical aspects? Processor type? Bus speeds? Other chips and processors to take into account? An operating system that the platform has to run in the background that eats up precious memory (which the other contemporaries didn't have to do, but the 3DO did)? There is a lot to take into account.

Anyway, I don't really know how the specs of the platforms compare asides from basic numbers on paper (which mean little, most likely). Purely going by what I have seen on the 3DO (Samurai Shodown probably being the most impressive/technically capable fighting game with its scrolling, scaling and large characters), I doubt Primal Rage could have been done full justice. Even SS is choppy in nature (I only mean that objectively, as few 3DO titles actually run at 60FPS, let alone a solid/constant 30FPS; most are lower, including SS). Way of the Warrior is another example that is technically sound, and it never runs at a consistent framerate (not a consistently good one anyway). Keeping that in mind, and seeing how Primal Rage runs in its current form on 3DO, it's highly doubtful we ever would have gotten a better version of Primal Rage, and based on other fighters for the system, it's highly possible it wouldn't have been able to get much better without sacrificing performance stability and playability.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:12 am 
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Austin wrote:
a31chris wrote:
Really? Are there not games with big 2D sprites on them for the 3do? Those sprites are only a little bigger than the 16 bit versions.


You're forgetting there is still a lot of frames of animation in those small sprites (which the 16-bit and 32X versions mostly lack). Your comparison of RAM with the other contemporary platforms (PS1, Saturn) is kind of moot as well. What kind of RAM does each system have? Is the 3DO's exactly the same? What about other technical aspects? Processor type? Bus speeds? Other chips and processors to take into account? An operating system that the platform has to run in the background that eats up precious memory (which the other contemporaries didn't have to do, but the 3DO did)? There is a lot to take into account.


I am aware of those things and have not forgotten them. Especially the frames of animation.

No I don't agree that the ram comparison is moot. The ram size is comparable. Bus speed is different.

I could give probe the benefit of the doubt if it wasn't a rush job.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:46 am 
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a31chris wrote:
No I don't agree that the ram comparison is moot. The ram size is comparable. Bus speed is different.


Size is moot, when taking into consideration different speeds, types and other factors.

a31chris wrote:
I could give probe the benefit of the doubt if it wasn't a rush job.


We have no concrete proof it was in fact a rush job, all we can do is speculate. The idea that Probe was stretched too thin could be true, or not. For all we know, Probe could have had many different development teams under one roof (would make sense to me--they had worked on several high profile franchises prior to porting Primal Rage. One would think the money would be flowing after dealing with the Mortal Kombat series, one of the biggest names of the early '90s). Who knows.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:57 am 
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The backgrounds aren't lined up. The sound isn't synched up. Some collision detection is off. Pretty hard evidence that something is up.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:10 am 
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a31chris wrote:
The backgrounds aren't lined up. The sound isn't synched up. Some collision detection is off. Pretty hard evidence that something is up.


Are you talking strictly the Jaguar version here? I'm still thinking of the 3DO version, which doesn't have the issues listed above.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:18 am 
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The Jaguar version, and a little of the Arcade YEARS AGO is all I have ever played.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Can anyone tell me what a 'Quick Kill' is in Primal Rage? I see it in the scoreboard stats, always with a zero next to it of course. But I have no idea what it is. Or how to do it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:05 pm 
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"Quick Kill" is a bonus that is awarded when you finish a round in less than 10 seconds. "Total Domination" is a similar bonus that's given for meeting other requirements. Basically, it's just points, which is important if you are playing the game for a high score.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Austin wrote:
"Quick Kill" is a bonus that is awarded when you finish a round in less than 10 seconds. "Total Domination" is a similar bonus that's given for meeting other requirements. Basically, it's just points, which is important if you are playing the game for a high score.


Less than ten seconds? Really? Have you ever achieved that?

On a sidenote the Pteradactyl in the foreground was not a glitch. Now that I'm playing the game a lot I am seeing stuff I never noticed before. Occasionally a Pteradactyl will fly by in the foreground.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:56 pm 
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Since I now spend every other day playing 3 continues of this and paying attention to how it is I was impressed with the amount of frames of animation. Until I watched the Genesis version which is comparable. Really close. However the backgrounds are all lined up on the Genesis version. But the sound is worse.

The Jaguar does have more background stuff. Volcanic geysers and Pteradactyls. Does it have more colors on screen? It doesn't seem like much more. And the resolution is probably close to the same.

Anyways next I'll start watching some Saturn vids of PR and really look at it. After playing some more PR on the Jag.

It's not looking great Probe. It looks like you improved it just enough on the Jaguar to not look like total jackasses.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:35 am 
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a31chris wrote:
Less than ten seconds? Really? Have you ever achieved that?


Yeah, quite a few times. Learn some lengthy combos and you should be able to do it too. Although it's going to be harder on the Jag unless you've got a Pro Controller handy.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:47 am 
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Yeah its about the only game I use my pro controller on.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:42 am 
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I'll do more research but I'd have to call the Jaguar version a 'perked up' Genesis version. I can't even really say its souped up.

The Saturn version is friggin beautiful.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:22 am 
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a31chris wrote:
I'll do more research but I'd have to call the Jaguar version a 'perked up' Genesis version. I can't even really say its souped up.

The Saturn version is friggin beautiful.


No, that title goes to the 32X version. Look that one up. It's barely improved over the Genny port.

The Saturn one is nice. Not arcade-perfect, but a lot closer than every home conversion but the PC one.

Of course, the best one you are going to find nowadays is the semi-emulated one on the Midway Arcade Treasures Volume 2 for the original XBOX.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:12 am 
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I have gotta pop in the Jaguar PR and check something out. On the Saturn version of Diablos land where the lava flows come from the background to the foreground is very nice. The parallax is lined up awesomely when your two fighters/monsters/dinos fight back and forth. I need to see it on the Jaguar version. The Saturn version is so well done its really a great 3D effect. I need to look at that closer on the Jaguar version see if it's anything close.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:26 am 
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The 3D effect on both Jaguar and Saturn are good.

I have to watch the Genesis version again. It does seem the Jag version has a chunk more colors sometimes.

What really needs to be done is one of those side by side comparison videos using of course the exact same capture setup.

The more I play this game the more I appreciate it.

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