Perceived 3DO -- what annoys you?

All general 3DO chat here please.

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Perceived 3DO -- what annoys you?

Post by 3DOKid » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:15 am

I just saw Jesus666 post on a UK retro site and it was the usual baloney about 3DO. The posters only remembered:

Super Street Fighter II turbo
Super Wing Commander (which was rubbish)
Need For Speed (which was good)

too expensive(yawn) no game(BS) PS1 was better(sigh)

How did 3Do lose history so badly? I appreciate 3DO wasn't a success (even I recognise that) but it's almost lamented, and as I recall things, lamented for all the wrong reasons.

PS1 and Saturn were released and 3DO was very much 3rd place. It had seen off CDi, Jaguar and CD32, admittedly, 3DO was limping but if it had made it to M2 all would have been well. The N64 might (would) have pushed 3DO into 4th place but everything was to play for... wasn't it?

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Post by Mobius » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:05 am

I think there's just a general attitude among most gamers of "if I didn't own it, it sucked." Most people didn't own a 3DO, therefore, most people think it sucks.

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Post by Lemmi » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:41 am

well DUH! the PS1 and Saturn was better than the 3DO just for the fact they came out almost 2 YEARS! after the 3DO in the states
people need to stop compairing them i think, thats alot of time to get better/faster parts in the systems

and i bet the no games comes from the people who owned a PS1 with tons of games and noticed the 3DO didnt have as many :roll:

the starting price of the system wil never die and is the main reason ( i think) people hate the system
i would like a Neo Geo but the price when i was collecting (1998 )was almost as high as when the system came out in 1991
and thats just stupid and it might be why i hate the system ... lol

i dont know, but i gave up on defending the 3DO because you cant change peoples minds especially if they hate something (IE Sony with me) :twisted: :shock: :D :lol:
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Post by 3DO Experience » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:31 am

I agree with Mobius, I've heard people say the NEO-GEO sucks. HA! Can you believe that? They just say that because they could never afford it. I love the argument "it only had fighting games", they are such maroons.
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Post by bonefish » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:39 am

It's like the folks who hate on the PS3 for its price. Now it isn't cheap. It isn't my first choice for a next gen system. But the reasons for that are beyond price :wink:

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Post by 3DOKid » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:53 am

My gripes with systems usually stems from the games not floating my boat. Anything by Nintendo for example.

It's weird isn't it but I'm staggered that people don't like the Neo Geo. the price is a put off but it's awesome... I've only ever seen one in the shops and I know that :)

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Post by mattyg » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:07 am

Its ignorance
I am forever expelling the virtues of 3DO , Cdi , Neo Geo etc
Unless they owned it or was continually in your face it might as well have not existed (if a tree falls..........)
We have a little bit of an excuse here - none of those systems were officially released in Australia .
As I have mentioned before a couple of "boutique" gaming shops had the Jag , Neo & 3DO available at the time but you needed to know where to look - yes they were all expensive but that doesn't mean they didn't exist!
I like my Neo
I like my 3DO
I like my Jag (please forgive me kid!)
I like my CDi (when it works)
I like my CD32
I like my psone
I like being reminded that once gaming was new and fresh and arcades ruled
I hate ignorance of any kind!
Its easy to give up defending these systems but I for one will keep on doing it
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3DO is dead , long live 3DO
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Post by mosul210 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:04 am

I also agree that people tend to bash or criticize what they don't understand. Also I may be in the minority here, but I actually preferred the 3DO library of games compared to Saturn or Playstation. Games like Twisted, Gex, and Super Wing Commander III were revolutionary. To this day there are no better party games to me than twisted or zhadnost for 3DO.

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Post by 3DOKid » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:29 am

mosul210 wrote:I also agree that people tend to bash or criticize what they don't understand. Also I may be in the minority here, but I actually preferred the 3DO library of games compared to Saturn or Playstation. Games like Twisted, Gex, and Super Wing Commander III were revolutionary. To this day there are no better party games to me than twisted or zhadnost for 3DO.
It's a weird sign of the times I reckon. I remember WANTING and playing rabidly Ridge/tekken/VF and Sega Rally but they were a long time coming.

Look at today. Arcade games on the home consoles do so-so but the big hitters are things are games with a greater experience.

If you could take the 3DO and teleport it forward 15 years so it was 360/PS3/Wii comparable it would surely stand a fighting chance.

It has 'thinking FPS', multimedia and casual games coming out of it's expansion port. (so to speak) partly the reason it failed was due to the lack of arcade games.

Also in terms of AAA games, the 3DOs back catalogue is comparable to 360/Wii/PS3 none of which are brimming to the top with AAA, where as in 1993 everyone was saying SNES with it's hundreds of AAA titles...

After 3 years on the shelves (the 3DOs lifetime) the PS3/360/Wii do not have 25 games that are actually good. And not one of the mediocre games has had the impact that NFS, WCIII or John Madden had.

Even games like Halo3, and for me Zillzone 2 which have been mega-hyped haven't floated my boat. They aren't even in the same league as mid-nighties games.

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Post by mattyg » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:47 am

One of the most interesting games for me this year has been Wario. This is probably the smoothest and possibly most beautiful 2D games I've seen since Gex.
Now the magazines are saying that 2D potential was never fully realised or appreciated in the rush to create 3D ...well duh!
I think as the small mature group that we are , we have probably come closer to dissecting the question as to why today's games are crap better than any article in print.
To understand where to go you need to understand where you've been - this is especially true in gaming today.
How many of these hot shot programmers actually played Twisted or Alex Kidd or the original Sonic?
I bet if you mention FMV you'll be laughed at
EA actually knew how to use it effectively - I much prefer the comedy of Zhadnost to the lifeless Buzz. We got to see real actors feeding us information on computer monitors whilst real time action was in progress in Wing III and Shockwave- no other machine could do this the way the 3DO did - it was designed for this.We loved to hate the X-man and how seemless was the switch to FMV close ups in Spacehulk.
The detractors constantly mention games like Night Trap and Plumbers as their argument against FMV but thats just two games and I've just mentioned 5 that were AAA titles!

The 3DO was born amongst the hope and turmoil that followed the end of the line for the SNES and Mega Drive.

It's story would make a an interesting film/documentry - maybe someday
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3DO is dead , long live 3DO
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Post by 3DOKid » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:47 pm

The gene-stealer attack in spacehulk is one of the most impressive things I have seen in a game. It's almost seamless and the continuity is never broken.

The other game that does this well is N.O.B. You walk from a realtime rendered corridor into a pre-rendered room and it's very smooth.

EA are still using FMV in Red Alert which is good to see.

FMV fell down because of bad acting, poor scripts and repetition. (seeing the same clip over and over and over again) It would be interesting to see what could be done with CELL processor and 50Gb storage, surely a very real interactive movie would be possible? Anyone presenting a FMV interactive movie would be almost certainly shot down in flames before they got anywhere mind you.

Point and click adventures that use FMV, like Snow Job, are very good. You'll never see it used again in anger I imagine.

As for 2D the great unsung heros as far as I am concerned are indeed Gex but also Rayman on the Jaguar and Pitfall on the Jag.

Some of the games on the PS2 bridged this well. GrimGrimoire and La Purcelle and the Disagea range for instance. They just don't sell well in the West. (or indeed East anymore)

I believe the industry is heading towards a decline. The car games, the FPS, the RPGS, even the sports games are all very samey. They hover in the pseudo-realistic-arcade domain and people will eventually grow tired.

Something fresh and new is required. You can only regurgitate Halo and Grid, good as they were, so many times.

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Post by Scarlettkitten » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:03 pm

I agree that the games industry is heading for a slump. same old games remade :(

The systems I've always liked & collected are.

3DO
Amiga
Atari 8bit
PCengine
NeoGeo

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Post by jesus 666 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:39 pm

I always seem to be arguing with someone on a forum about the 3DO, I've got it down now though, after the first few times it happened and I'd spent like an hour writing stuff out, these days I just copy and paste sections of my old arguments as I've already gone through the same BS with people over and over in the past :lol:

The whole 3DO thing is a pain in the arse, i'm sure people constantly mix it up with the CDI or something, I mean, it's not like the 3DO library was only FMV games (which most people seem to think) I remember one thread I read once where some guy was moaning about the 3DO and what a pile of shit it was for "raping the Zelda franchise"
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Post by Trev » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:12 pm

A little late to post for this, but it always drives me nuts to hear them bash the 3DO pad. This seems to be one of the key reasonings for why it was a "bad system" 'Had to unscrew it to play the parlax less Street Fighter'

Granted, the original pad was known to have a slight issue w/diaganols (although it never really bugged me) but it's not like 3DO was w/out other controllers. In fact, considering it's brief life cycle I think it had a large amount of alternative pads! The joystick or Capcom pad could/should shut up these whiners!

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Post by 3DOKid » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:27 pm

Trev wrote:A little late to post for this, but it always drives me nuts to hear them bash the 3DO pad. This seems to be one of the key reasonings for why it was a "bad system" 'Had to unscrew it to play the parlax less Street Fighter'

Granted, the original pad was known to have a slight issue w/diaganols (although it never really bugged me) but it's not like 3DO was w/out other controllers. In fact, considering it's brief life cycle I think it had a large amount of alternative pads! The joystick or Capcom pad could/should shut up these whiners!
I hear that. There are a set number of responses to 3DO, that often aren't based on fact but rather on perpetuated myths. The people who perpetuate them have no knowledge based on personal experience, or any desire to gain personal experience, they merely want to sound clever on the Internet and want sound definitive and authoritative based on repeating glib comments that have been around for 15 years.

- Price (It got cheaper)
- Loads of FMV games. (It had a lot, but it had just as many FPS and 2D fighters)
- Bad controller. (There were plenty of alternatives, and it wasn't that bad)
- 3 or 4 good games. (I reckon, honestly, it had about 20 - 25 good games, which is better than the 360/PS3/Wii can muster)

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Post by 3DO Experience » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:28 am

I have never had a problem with the Panasonic controllers. I hear about people saying they had to loosen the screws but they've always been fine for me. Maybe it was a European thing?
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Post by 3DOKid » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:44 am

3DO Experience wrote:I have never had a problem with the Panasonic controllers. I hear about people saying they had to loosen the screws but they've always been fine for me. Maybe it was a European thing?
I never really had a problem either. It was an idiot thing i reckon.

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Post by bonefish » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:35 am

A little off-topic. It seems that the Angry Video Game Nerd has finally touched on the Jaguar. I wonder how long until he touches on the 3do? He has some rather constructive arguments when it comes to his console reviews. I wouldn't be shocked if the review was at first "wow this sucks" but then you get past the misinformation you guys have brought up it really wasn't that bad of a console.

Anyway... I tried the d-pad loosening and I ended up tightening it back up on my old Panasonic pads, it didn't work or feel any better to me.

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Post by Lemmi » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:48 am

3DOKid wrote:
3DO Experience wrote:I have never had a problem with the Panasonic controllers. I hear about people saying they had to loosen the screws but they've always been fine for me. Maybe it was a European thing?
I never really had a problem either. It was an idiot thing i reckon.
no problems with it on my end
mainly because i have never used the ones i have. i dont like the feel of it
i bought the Goldstar 3DO in 1997 and i have been using the same controller since then :)
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Post by Gir Draxa » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:18 pm

3DO Experience wrote:I have never had a problem with the Panasonic controllers. I hear about people saying they had to loosen the screws but they've always been fine for me. Maybe it was a European thing?
Actually, the original release 3DO controllers were a bit stiff, but they seemed to get a little better later in 3DO's life. The tiny D-pad didn't help either. Loosening the screws helped the stiffness and made diagonal movements slightly easier on them. Often it would end up damaging faster.

One theory on the pad was they were still thinking "for kids" in their mind, so made the d-pad smaller thumb friendly, also possibly to compensate for the comparative thickness of the controller. Not quite the original NES' brick with buttons feel, but close. Perhaps an ergonomic brick with more buttons. heh.

But if you look at the feel of the controllers of the day for SNES & Genesis, you can see why the original 3DO pad was the source of much spite. It just doesn't compare. I still feel the adapted Genesis pad was the best to play Way of the Warrior & Street Fighter with. Even the most difficult moves come off with ease.

Some games just didn't lend themselves to improve the feel of the original pad. Star Control 2 and Killing Time did seem a lot more fun with it though.

So 3DO did have a 'bad' controller by comparison. But then it's not a BAD controller overall. CD-i had the market cornered on bad controller concepts (thumbstick, wireless thumbstick... etc). Intellivision II, whoa!!! major stinkage of an already testy controller. The standard Jaguar controller... ouch! By comparison to these attempts at carpal tunnel affliction, the 3DO controller rocks. Consider it... middle of the road... with a headphone jack.

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Post by 3DOKid » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:30 pm

Honestly, I think the Atari Jag pad was sub-optimal and so was the CD32 one.

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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:50 pm

I bought my FZ-01 in '93 and the controller works just fine, so does the others I got from trades and sales. The Jaguar controller can be good but mostly it seemed to be clumsy, especially if you don't have the overlay, personally I've found the best standard controller (not counting joysticks and the like) to be the "NiGHTS" controller for the Saturn.
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Post by Gir Draxa » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:08 am

3DO Experience wrote:I bought my FZ-01 in '93 and the controller works just fine, so does the others I got from trades and sales. The Jaguar controller can be good but mostly it seemed to be clumsy, especially if you don't have the overlay, personally I've found the best standard controller (not counting joysticks and the like) to be the "NiGHTS" controller for the Saturn.
The 'hockey puck'? ouch! never liked that one. Seemed a bit weighty. Loved saturns model 2 controller though.

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Post by mattyg » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:17 am

best controller ever ( and I hate admitting it) the 360 wireless - weight feel response all excellent . I went out and bought the PC version and never looked back
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Post by BryWI » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:47 am

360 controller is good, but the d-pad sucks. NES and SNES controllers always had the best d-pads. I would never accidently hit up on those as I was trying to hit left or right. That is the very reason I hate trying to find controllers for PC. I use alot of emulators because I dont have my old consoles anymore. It's really annoying when I can't get a good PC controller with a good d-pad. I have to find a store where they are sitting out on display so I can see if it's even usable.

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Post by 3DOKid » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:49 am

mattyg wrote:best controller ever ( and I hate admitting it) the 360 wireless - weight feel response all excellent . I went out and bought the PC version and never looked back
The 360 controller is really good, at what it's good at. Ace Combat 6 it is a pleasure, like wise PGR 4 and for FPS's it's awesome. That said, point a 2D/3D fighter at it or an arcade game and it's utterly useless. Luckily - these game aren't popular any more. :evil:

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Post by 3DOKid » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:33 am

...on another note, and since I am 'working from home' today, the comedy really does go out of the whole Asian L and R pronunciation problem when you are presented with the syllable "tsu". Which is, armed only with a western mouth, almost impossible to pronounce without concentrating, and a bit of run at it first.

The Japanese language loves this "tsu" sound. It's a combination of lips, tongue and teeth in a split-second micro gymnastics exercise, the sound only lasting half as long as a western "T" sound. The "u" is practically silent, and you only say a bit of the "t", and to be honest the 's' is debatable too.

To make matter worse it always seems buried in an a tongue-tying collection of random vowels. That don't in English, typically, sit next to each other. :?

And then there is the ever popular two "i"s in a row. Which only appears once in common English: Skiing. And it really doesn't make any difference but woe-be-tide me if i get it wrong in front of my pretty strict tutor. :roll:

On that note, Japanese high school must be a living hell by the way, Japanese teachers (i've had two now), even at my age (36) and as a paying customer, don't take any sh*t whatsoever (They will not tollerate: lateness, sloppy work, lack of practice, etc., etc the lesson I learned was don't try and laugh it off - apologising and shutting up work better ;) ) - Anime has lied to us all, quite a lot, on that particular subject I suspect.

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Post by jesus 666 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:36 pm

Yeah the pad hating is definately one of the most common BS critisms of the 3DO I see out there, I constantly see people saying it was "unusuable" and "one of the worst controllers ever"

I'm sorry but this is just bollocks, I never really had any trouble with the pad, yeah occasionally it could be slightly more difficult to get diagonalls but not to the stage where it was a big problem.

To call the pad Unuseable when at the very worst the diagonalls only specifically affected pulling off super moves in fighting games and had no affect on any other game genres is ridiculous.

Where the "one of the worst controlers of all time" fame is concerned, I'm sorry but the Master System D-Pad is infinately worse than the 3DO one, not only in it's uncomfortable shape and size but in it's complete inaccuracy, many times in a shmup I have attempted to move forwards only to move diagonally into a bullet, this has a serious affect on gameplay but you don't here people saying the Master System is crap because of it's controler.

Usually when I hear some one use the "3DO controler was awful" argument I'll just quite simply say "which one? there were many different official ones and stacks of 3rd party ones"
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Post by 3DOKid » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:43 pm

Some people hate the DC, PS3, 360, 3DO pad and the bile spitting really get me down. human fulfill your genetic destiny: "adapt'.

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Post by Gir Draxa » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:45 pm

3DOKid wrote:...on another note, and since I am 'working from home' today, the comedy really does go out of the whole Asian L and R pronunciation problem when you are presented with the syllable "tsu". Which is, armed only with a western mouth, almost impossible to pronounce without concentrating, and a bit of run at it first.

The Japanese language loves this "tsu" sound. It's a combination of lips, tongue and teeth in a split-second micro gymnastics exercise, the sound only lasting half as long as a western "T" sound. The "u" is practically silent, and you only say a bit of the "t", and to be honest the 's' is debatable too.

To make matter worse it always seems buried in an a tongue-tying collection of random vowels. That don't in English, typically, sit next to each other. :?

And then there is the ever popular two "i"s in a row. Which only appears once in common English: Skiing. And it really doesn't make any difference but woe-be-tide me if i get it wrong in front of my pretty strict tutor. :roll:

On that note, Japanese high school must be a living hell by the way, Japanese teachers (i've had two now), even at my age (36) and as a paying customer, don't take any sh*t whatsoever (They will not tollerate: lateness, sloppy work, lack of practice, etc., etc the lesson I learned was don't try and laugh it off - apologising and shutting up work better ;) ) - Anime has lied to us all, quite a lot, on that particular subject I suspect.
Ouch, sounds like you're having a rough go of it. tsu is not really that hard once you get it down.... it's just the same sound you make saying "it's" without the i sound, then tack on a u sound at the end. The word for 'when?' itsu (いつ) is probably the easiest word to practice the tsu sound.

Double i is just a longer 'ee' sound as in speed or free, the difference between hiiro (scarlet) and and hiro (fathom). In the case of ii it's just holding the sound a 1/4 beat longer. Same works with double aa as in obasan vs obaasan. But lets not get too far ahead.

Good luck in your lessons.

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