The 3DO the best 32-bit CD system?

All general 3DO chat here please.

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wulfren
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Post by wulfren » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:14 pm

"Ninty" meh huh wha??


Since you pointed that out, I will concede you that very good and legitimate fact that all of our 3DO's are anywhere from 11-14 years old and still play, opposide to the 360's day one problems, and infact just a week or so ago MS finally announced that they were offically "having problems" with them (it was big enough news for our local news station to talk about it, i only regret i didn't hear all that was said)


hehe however you reinforced my very statement, you have your PSP for travel sanity your 360 for instant gratification (if you ever get the chance to play GoW online go for it, it adds alot to replay value, I've had the very fortunate chance to play multi player with my brother and we could clean up the maps) ......and you have your 3DO as old faithful,

in alot of ways you sound alot like me when it comes to looking forward to games, and infact the only games i'm actually looking forward to getting are 3DO games (flying nightmares is first on the list) and while i do have a decent little collection of other system games I just buy them as i enjoy the series (such as Call of Duty ..tho III was disappointing) I also buy games for the games ability, IE I have NFS most wanted for my 360, and I have a good wheel, and yes while it is really fun to scream down a city road at about 140mph one of things i catch myself doing most is the real life driving that it allows you to do. I personally think that if they would add just a few more things to that base engine that would be a wonderful driving simulator for kids in drivers ed

but meh enough of my rants heh btw what "Ninty"
Wulfren

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Post by 3DOKid » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:44 pm

Ninty = Nintendo (sorry if it wasn't clear!)

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bonefish
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Post by bonefish » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:26 am

T2KFreeker wrote: Hmm, I disagree with some of the things that you bring up man. As for 3D muscle, we will really never know which was more powerful between the Saturn and 3DO because the Saturn especially was never pushed to its limits at all. Remember, they used the dual processor approach to things which is very much the same as the Jaguar did which killed them. Even Sega will tell you that the really never tapped the full potential of the Saturn, not even close.
Remember, Sega has said alot of things. Many of them false. The Saturn couldn't even do transparencies. Panzer Dragoon Saga looks great but I think that and several other last Saturn games are the peak of that console. Actually as to not remember the 3do with rose colored glasses I played Shockwave 2 then did some first gen Saturn gaming, Virtua Fighter 2. As much as I love the 3do, I think the 3do may be around 2/3rd's the 3d horsepower of the Saturn maybe significantly less. Multi-processing? It still isn't paying off today in the PS3, it made people scratch their heads even more back then.
T2KFreeker wrote: As for 2D stuff, have you seen Rayman on the Jaguar? Kills the Playstation and Saturn versions. If we are talking specs here, the system murdered the Playstation and could have sat with the 3DO and Neo Geo as all three systems had very close to the same specs. If only MK3 had released, we would know for sure. Anyway, the Jaguar killed the PSX in 2D by a longshot.
Actually I gave that one some thought, then I remembered the Final Fantasy Collections released for the PS1. So I'm going to revise my 2d formula. Saturn is still #1 because its fighting games are excellent examples of its 2d prowess.

Here it is:

Saturn>Jaguar>=3do>SNES>Playstation

Yes, that is the SNES in the 32-bit equation for 2d :wink:
They had to make many cuts in 2d fighters back in the day to port them to playstation.

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Post by Blades » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:10 am

Remember, Sega has said alot of things. Many of them false. The Saturn couldn't even do transparencies.
INACCURATE MYTH. The Saturn So Could do Transparencies. And real transperencies, not dithering. It was just hard to pull off but doable.

A prime example of this would be Sonic Rs Radiant Emerald Stage, The whole TRACK was transparent and the gameplay moved without any hiccups.

So it is possible.

Agree with everything else you say.
What Has EA turned into...tsk tsk

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Post by Mobius » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:48 am

Blades wrote:INACCURATE MYTH. The Saturn So Could do Transparencies. And real transperencies, not dithering. It was just hard to pull off but doable.

A prime example of this would be Sonic Rs Radiant Emerald Stage, The whole TRACK was transparent and the gameplay moved without any hiccups.

So it is possible.
But man, was the pop-up on that stage hideous!

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Post by Blades » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:42 am

Oh, Cmon, it wasn't that bad.

Of Course I'm one who has to have pop-up pointed out to me :D

In All Reality it wasn't that bad, but saying that "Saturn Can't Do Transparencies 110101001010101!!!" is stupid. No Offense there Bonefish, I'm referring to people who use that reason to compare it with the PSone.

PSone didn't even have that good graphics, I'd go as far as to say that it was less powerful than Saturn :P

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bonefish
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Post by bonefish » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:52 am

They used software rendering as opposed to hardware render. Probably would explain the pop-up too as the cpu was working overtime.

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3DOKid
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Post by 3DOKid » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:14 am

Blades wrote:
Of Course I'm one who has to have pop-up pointed out to me :D
Me to. And I hate it when they do.

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Post by Blades » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:31 am

bonefish wrote:They used software rendering as opposed to hardware render. Probably would explain the pop-up too as the cpu was working overtime.
Very True, Polygons in itself were actually a manipulation of the sprite engine on the Saturn. Actually, I havent played it in a week or so, but as I remember, the popup wasnt bad. Am I wrong?

But the CPU was so powerful that it was able to pull off Software rendering so well, that it was almost like hardware on PSone.

In all honesty, I don't really care about software vs hardware rendering. What does it matter how you get a polygon, if it's still drawn on the screen?

True it is inefficient, but if it still works, who cares??

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Post by 3DOKid » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:11 am

Was the Jaguar really better than 3DO at 2D? I do recall people commenting on just how good the 3DO was at 2D. Not that it seems to be the case looking at Samurai Shodown (Slowdown)

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Post by Blades » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:35 am

Isn't 2D Just Polygons in a flat field? So a system that is better at 3D can be efficiently coded to produce 2D better too.

Am I wrong?

I never understood really, from the released games, i got an impression that the jaguar just SUCKED BAD at 3D, so 2D couldn't be much better right?

So my very educated guess would be that the 3DO is better :D .
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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:44 pm

3DOKid wrote:…Plus there happy smiley casual gamer games really irritate me to look at. You know what - I want to kill things in 3D. I was born in the 70s, with an extra chromosome: The bottom line is, I want to kill things. Even if it's just in 3D on a games console. And - I want to play the hero to - so none of that anti-hero 90s rubbish for me either.
YEAH! I want to murder, maim and mutilate! Hey Nintendo start carrying more games people want that X-Box and PlayStation have and get back ontop of the market!
Blades wrote:...What does it matter how you get a polygon, if it's still drawn on the screen?...if it still works, who cares??
RIGHT ON! It's like Donkey Kong Country (the original) and Escape From Monster Manor, what the hell is wrong with pre rendered graphics? If we had stayed with FMV we could have been playing current system graphics a decade ago.
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Post by Mobius » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:45 pm

Nope, 2D is a very different beast from 3D. With polygons, you have 3D models which you manipulate on screen by calculating the position of each vertex and then draw on the fly. That takes a lot of processing power. With 2D, you basically have bitmap images that you just position on the screen with X,Y coordinates. That doesn't take nearly as much processing power.

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Post by T2KFreeker » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:23 am

Mobius wrote:Nope, 2D is a very different beast from 3D. With polygons, you have 3D models which you manipulate on screen by calculating the position of each vertex and then draw on the fly. That takes a lot of processing power. With 2D, you basically have bitmap images that you just position on the screen with X,Y coordinates. That doesn't take nearly as much processing power.
Keep in mind though, you do need enough V-RAM later on to actually handle the 2D graphics. Playstation only had 2 MB, and that is why it sucked ass at the 2D games. The Saturn had 32! Amazing! The sadness> The PS2 has . . . 2 MB of V-RAM. Thought they would have learned from the Playstation! :roll:
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Post by bonefish » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:25 am

2d and 3d are way different indeed. Awhile back, well not that far I guess 10+ years ago. :wink: I had a Pentium 166 pc, 32mb ram, and a rage 2c graphics card. It wasn't a horrible setup. I could play duke nukem and all the latest emulators pretty darn well. But then Quake hit. It played ok on that machine but it was pretty darn pixelated. But then I added a Rendition Verite and Quake became beautiful. Smooth and fast, just easy on the eyes. BUT the card had HORRID 2d performance. I lost frames on my emulators (SNES especially) that made things really chug. It had bad desktop performance as well. I overclocked the card abit to bring it at least close to the rage 2 2d performance. I really wished windows 95 had dual video out support back then.

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Post by Mobius » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:21 am

T2KFreeker wrote:Keep in mind though, you do need enough V-RAM later on to actually handle the 2D graphics. Playstation only had 2 MB, and that is why it sucked ass at the 2D games. The Saturn had 32! Amazing! The sadness> The PS2 has . . . 2 MB of V-RAM. Thought they would have learned from the Playstation! :roll:
Good point, 2D is harsh on the VRAM. But both the PlayStation and Saturn had 2MB of main RAM. The difference is that the PSX only had 1MB of video RAM where the Saturn had about 1.5MB of VRAM and the ability to add on the 4-meg cart.

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