new beginning?

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3DOKid
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new beginning?

Post by 3DOKid » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:19 pm

Towards the end of the SNES, MD, Amiga, ST era, it became apparent that nintendo, Sega, Commodore and Atari were not up to the job anymore. Their idea's had become stale, and their ignorance/arrogance paved the way for 3DO and Sony...

Could this happen again?

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Post by Lemmi » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:29 pm

i think the days of the small upstart videogame companies are dead
unless 2 of the 3 companies now stop doing it

maybe Apple could do it just because they have the $$$$
and you need a TON of $$$ to start now
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Post by mattyg » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:00 am

Panasonic could still do it Samsung could and agreed that Apple could too. Apple probably wont though as the home casual console market with a trendy white casing and screen based userface is cornered.
Panasonic and Samsung wont because they both learned that making components for others is just more profitable and easier.
Other than hardware reliability MS are doing everything right - Sony now has no choice but to pin its hopes on PS4 - PS3 is dead

I know many will disagree
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Post by OfManNotMachine » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:33 am

I wouldn't say Apple won't enter the market.

I recall reading recently somewhere, and I don't recall where, I'll have to find the link and post it here so I don't sound insane, but I read that Apple offered Sony quite a bit of money to buy the Playstation brand name because Sony is considering leaving the hardware biz.

It could have just been someone writing it for attention, I gotta search around and see if I can find that article and link it up here.

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Post by 3DOKid » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:21 pm

Sony sell Playstation to Apple.

How do I put this? Hmmm. How about:


"PLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"


Yep that sums it up.

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Post by OfManNotMachine » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:08 pm

Trust me, I totally have the same feeling if Apple bought the Playstation brand, or if Apple just relesed a console period.

Good lord....

First....you think your 3DO was pricey when it came out? Don't worry...Apple will top that....They'd launch a console say...as powerfull as the 360 but sell it for $1,599 and then tell you how awesome, special and elite you are if you own one.

Then...you goto their little store....and spend all your money on micro transactions!

And then we'll get to see more awful ad's that tell you there's an app for that...but...there has yet to be an app that makes apple not suck.

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Post by desiv » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:40 pm

I don't know. For software, it's still possible..

I've bought everything Introversion has released. Even though it's a UK shop. :-)

Now, if you're talking hardware, I think you're right.

There's just no way someone can come up with enough capital to push through and maintain hardware unless it's a HUGE company.

Sad but true..

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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:35 pm

I remember reading something about the profits of video game companies through the ages. It turns out SONY is currently loosing money on it's video game venture and has been since part of the PS2 days. And here is the real kicker Microsoft has never made profit off of either X-BOX! This did include money made from software licenses! I had heard in the very beginning before the first X-BOX release that they were doing it strictly for advertising of their company name. [Sounds like it's doing it's job, look how many people are still buying Vista even though everyone should know by now it's not worth the money.]--this last part just my opinion.
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Post by 3DOKid » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:06 am

They are shooting for the ultimate end game. They always wanted to control the livingroom. The games, the dvd player, the internet, the downloadable content, movies, songs, etc. They have a nagging doubt there is a huge amount of money in it. The only issue being, they haven't found it yet ;)

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Post by Mobius » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:03 pm

3DO Experience wrote:I remember reading something about the profits of video game companies through the ages. It turns out SONY is currently loosing money on it's video game venture and has been since part of the PS2 days. And here is the real kicker Microsoft has never made profit off of either X-BOX! This did include money made from software licenses! I had heard in the very beginning before the first X-BOX release that they were doing it strictly for advertising of their company name. [Sounds like it's doing it's job, look how many people are still buying Vista even though everyone should know by now it's not worth the money.]--this last part just my opinion.
Sony's game division has been losing money since a bit before the PS3 came out. The PS3 is really killing them. Hell, Sony as a whole is struggling.

Microsoft started turning a profit off the Xbox last year -- not enough yet to recoup the losses from the previous generation, though. But they seem to have themselves in good position.

Nintendo almost never loses money.

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Post by desiv » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Hey, just found out that Sega is going to be releasing some new hardware!

Seriously!

http://news.digitaltrends.com/feature/1 ... ue-gadgets

Well, it might not be a game console, but it's something...

:roll:

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Post by Trev » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:28 am

For all the Sega fanboys who've also wanted to be astronauts. :wink:

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Post by 3DO Experience » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:19 am

Mobius wrote:Microsoft started turning a profit off the Xbox last year -- not enough yet to recoup the losses from the previous generation, though. But they seem to have themselves in good position.
You mean profit from the 360 line? Ignoring all the money lost on the original system correct?
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Post by desiv » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:32 pm

This can't be right???
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176741.asp

I mean, I'm not an XBox fan, but a 54% failure rate for 360's????
:shock: :shock:

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Post by BryWI » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:47 pm

That survey could of been killed by false answers but to be honest, I believe it could be that high.

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Post by mattyg » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:03 pm

I actually believe the rate to be higher - I used to sell consoles for a national retailer. My current company buys 360's for the 150 kids in our care - it's a constant merry go round of red rings.

The PS3 would be no different except that many were given away with with Bravia tv's to boost their numbers and are just seldom used blu ray players in that market - older demographic who are just treating them as dvd players and aren't giving them a decent flogging. At least half of the PS3's we sold to gamers were coming back with hard drive issues or cooling issues.

Both systems suck in reliability

Funny though that Ninty continue to make money and that I have NEVER seen a Nintendo product with a manufacturing fault in 5 years of selling them. Surly failure rates and constant servicing/returns are affecting Sony/MS profit.
Sony were the ones that started this crap back with the ps1 by selling it at a significant loss to grab customers - unwittingly setting a pattern for future manufacturers. I mean why would a consumer pay full price for something when the company is prepared to sell cheaper and at a loss just to say FIGJAM.
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Post by 3DOKid » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:29 pm

The simple reason Nintendo is more reliable is that they use older components of a higher quality.

Sony/MS have to use newer (temperamental) components but cheaper ones to keep the price of the total console down.

If you asked Sony, MS and Nintendo to make their current consoles, 3 years from now, there would no problems (one would hope) with any of them.

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Post by OfManNotMachine » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:13 am

I read that of the 54% that fail, 41% of those repairs fail again.

I love my XBOX360, and I've never had a problem with mine, but wow. Absolutely insane. My brother has gone through 4, my dad through 2, a friend of mine has gone through 5! FIVE!!!! And he takes such great care of his stuff so I doubt it's from misuse.

Sony claims the fail rate of the PS3 is slim, and well....it probably is because nobody turns their system on to play any games with it.

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Post by 3DO Experience » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:27 am

I believe the 360 fail rate is higher than 54%. Almost everyone I know & simply met who has had one has had it fail. It's the only thing keeping me from buying one! And I really do want one for certain games. PS3... well you all know I'm a PS hater but honestly come on SONY! You are known for making good products... you were the first to give Americans affordable transistor radios and led the pack in research for every field you dove into so why, WHY are you making crap products now???? Yes your software had always sucked, and I'm not even talking about games, but cheap CD players you can break in your hands... consoles that can't handle regular use, audio and video equipment that makes no name bands look good? WTF?

Yes you can still by good SONY products but you can't get them off the shelves hardly anymore. You have to find them online and know what to look for. How the hell can they make HD-TVs that break in the first year? What happened to quality control!?! Practically every time I walk into Best Buy I see someone with a big box with SONY written on the side. (it makes me cry inside) A good chunk of friends that have a PS3, that hasn't needed repair only use them now for Blu-Ray. They are not big gamers but I think the low usage is the only thing keep their systems alive. And you know what I did? I compared this fast BD player, yeah very quick load times, to my Panasonic DMP-BD50... guess who won? It wasn't the company that invented Blu... how can you loose out to someone else? I am a Panasonic whore but when I switched between the same movie (Transformers) playing on both units the PS3 looked blurry!!!

So X-BOX and PS3 both falling apart, what about my beloved Nintendo? They didn't so much screw up the console so much as the accessories... no one likes their Wii-mote to go crashing through their $4,000 HD set. What, did no one in the entire company play hard with this thing? There must have been thousands of people testing hardware, software, opinions, guys wearing business suits that want to try out the product before giving it the o.k.! How could you not know the strap would break with rigorous American over-use of equipment. Hell I used to jump up with a NES controller, shaking it madly while pressing buttons, how could you not anticipate over enthusiastic (and angry) gamers swinging madly?!?! Yes you fixed the problem quickly and easily but the other big two can't do that inside their systems.

Ok I've had my rant. X-BOX 360 = will eventually die and may burn down your house if you leave it on the carpet, PS3 = it will fail if you use it for playing games and SONY will prob tell you that the prob isn't covered under the warranty, Wii = make sure you have the second strap so you don't destroy anything expensive, be prepared to find yourself downloading old games from 10 other systems rather than playing the new ones.
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Post by Mobius » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:57 am

3DO Experience wrote:
Mobius wrote:Microsoft started turning a profit off the Xbox last year -- not enough yet to recoup the losses from the previous generation, though. But they seem to have themselves in good position.
You mean profit from the 360 line? Ignoring all the money lost on the original system correct?
Quarterly (and maybe even a fiscal year) profit. But I'm guessing still an overall loss on the 360. And definitely an overall massive loss on the first one.

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Post by 3DOKid » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:27 am

Sony used to make high quality stuff. However, since about 2001 they have been making shoddily made rubbish.

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Post by mattyg » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:22 am

my problem with your argument 3DOkid is that the 3DO was cutting edge for its time too- for most manufacturers at the time of 3DO's birth using cd's for anything other than music was truly pie in the sky stuff . Cutting edge shouldn't mean fragile - my 3DO still works 15 years on - sony and ms have no excuse.
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Post by 3DOKid » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:12 am

I totally agree.

The MD/SNes were cutting edge once, they still work a charm and they didn't require endless updates.

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Post by Silanda » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:42 pm

Part of the issue is that cutting edge today is a lot more sensitive than cutting edge 15 years ago, a simple example is the connection of chips to the motherboard. An i7 processor has 1366 pins connecting it, and if one fails then it doesn't work. By comparison, a Motorola 68000 had 64 pins, and even cutting edge chips in the 90's had far less, and bigger, pins which were physically more secure than today's.

Optical drives are another area with similar issues. Those old single and double speed drives could last a hell of a lot longer simply by the virtue that they experienced less physical stress than modern high speed drives, as well as not requiring the same tight tolerances that modern drives do. That said the drive failure rate in early PS1s must have been near 100% (although the main fault was fixable).

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Post by 3DOKid » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:20 pm

That's true. But you could argue that achieving or arriving at a technology, for example a 1 x CDROM is harder than a similar technology DVD. After all, between the two a lot of lesson must have been learnt.

I'm sure that a top of the range chip today, can be made just as reliably as a to of the range chip 16 years ago. What tends to lower the price is the reduction in costs. And that's the balance.

A Korean made Kia cost x amount, and an Italian made Ferrari costs 'y' amount. They are both cars, they both get you from a to b. So why does one cost a few thousand and another a couple of hundred thousand? Ferrari are just pretentious? The same applies to hardware IMHO.

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