Doom on 3DO

All general 3DO chat here please.

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Trev
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Post by Trev » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:24 am

Calavera wrote:
GameCubed wrote:Does anyone remember Chex Quest? That was the best free game in a box of cereal ever! It's the Doom of cereal-based shooters (although I think it was built on the Duke Nukem 3D engine).

IIRC
I remember seeing a commercial that showed you got Chex Quest free in a box of Chex. I think I got a box of Chex that same day lol. Best marketing campaign ever! :P
How bout this one?

http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/game.php?id=664
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Post by Versus » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:02 pm

Does anyone knows how to get 3DO Doom sources? Not Jaguar sources, its useless on 3DO hardware.

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Post by Rick-Manta » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:28 pm

Sorry to drag up an old topic but I only thought the 3DO version of Doom was good because of the music, I have to disagree with the OP about it not being as unplayable as some were making out. It's terrible, you're forced to have it on I'm a wimp difficulty as you'd never get a shot off, at one point I thought the beretta looked like a flamethrower because the muzzle flash stayed visible for 2 seconds when I was trying to turn to shoot another imp. However, I can't deny I played it through and still enjoyed it which was perhaps what the OP was getting at.

Also what's this about the Playstation version being lower res than the 3DO or in anyway inferior to any of the others Jag? It's totally different from all the others, I know the engine was a Jag port but it was so heavily modified it may aswell have been re-written (like the SNES one!). I had the Jag version (looked a bit better and played far more fluidly than 3DO but couldn't handle any level music) the levels were the same as the 3DO bar one I think which was missing, still nowhere near as good looking as the PS1 version, the PS1 had all the Ultimate Doom levels and Doom 2 on one disk, plus a couple of PS1 only secret levels, has multiplayer (well.. 2 on link up). The music was changed for an ambient 'horror sound' background track which was cool but I wish it had the option for the 3DO music. Although it didn't have memory card saves, PS1 Doom would give you a password so you'd start the level with all your guns and equipment, health and armour from the previous level.

I've had every version of Doom on all formats except Sega Saturn. If you haven't played the PS1 Doom thinking it's similar to the 3DO and Jaguar versions, I must recommend you have a go it's the best version there is by far (discluding the PC for it's multiplayer, obviously)

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Post by boabject78 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:49 pm

I agree that the PSX did have the better conversion of Doom for the consoles at the time but thats really no surprise as Id and Williams handled the conversion, PSX was the latest most powerful machine around (M2 where were you?) and it had the might of Sony behind it.

But the 3do was doing things that the PSX wasn't so its always going to be a sore topic for the 3do fans who waited a while for the 3do version only to be served a pile of poop, courtesy of the clowns at Art Data.

The 3do soundtrack for Doom is its one saving grace and its nice to know the Doom modders still use the 3do's music today.

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Post by Austin » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:13 am

There's no denying the PlayStation version is the "best" home port of the '90s. It's the most complete with great controls and the largest level set. It's not perfect though (IMO) and there are aspects of other versions I like more. For instance, the overall look of the Jaguar version appeals to me more with its color implementation and smoother shadows and shading (supposedly that's thanks to the CRY mode being used). The PSX version looks really grainy, something I never cared for that is really common in PlayStation games. Also, the Jaguar version uses the stock PC sound effects, which I like a lot more than the bland replacements used in the PSX game (which were then regurgitated for use in the N64 exclusive, DOOM 64). I still don't understand that design choice.

But, again, the PlayStation version is still the "best" version. Again, it's the most complete. And the different lighting effects in it are pretty cool as well. The controls are tight, and shoulder strafing is excellent.

To be honest though, the debate these days is almost a moot point. If I am really going to buckle down and run through a DOOM game, it's going to either be the PC versions (easily obtainable), or the ports on the XBOX DOOM 3 Collector's Edition disc, or the XBOX Live Arcade versions of DOOM and DOOM II.

Regarding the Saturn version, it is a botched port of the PlayStation version. It's the same game, but has a horrible framerate in areas (mostly the wide open stages, like in parts of DOOM II and towards the end of Ultimate DOOM), and it has a mildly-tolerable framerate on the indoor areas.. There are rumors that the Japanese version has a smoother framerate, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I'll eventually find out, but I don't feel like paying $40 - $50 for an import version of a game that's likely to be as bad as the US one. Now that I really think of it, I think I am actually more ashamed of completing that version than the 3DO one. Mainly because it's twice as painful thanks to the greater amount of stages and the lack of quality music.

I have to also say, it's a shame the Jag version didn't get music. Carmack said that if Atari had given them a larger cart size to work with, they would have been able to implent it.
Rick-Manta wrote:Also what's this about the Playstation version being lower res than the 3DO or in anyway inferior to any of the others Jag? It's totally different from all the others, I know the engine was a Jag port but it was so heavily modified it may aswell have been re-written (like the SNES one!). I had the Jag version (looked a bit better and played far more fluidly than 3DO but couldn't handle any level music) the levels were the same as the 3DO bar one I think which was missing, still nowhere near as good looking as the PS1 version, the PS1 had all the Ultimate Doom levels and Doom 2 on one disk, plus a couple of PS1 only secret levels, has multiplayer (well.. 2 on link up). The music was changed for an ambient 'horror sound' background track which was cool but I wish it had the option for the 3DO music. Although it didn't have memory card saves, PS1 Doom would give you a password so you'd start the level with all your guns and equipment, health and armour from the previous level.

I've had every version of Doom on all formats except Sega Saturn. If you haven't played the PS1 Doom thinking it's similar to the 3DO and Jaguar versions, I must recommend you have a go it's the best version there is by far (discluding the PC for it's multiplayer, obviously)

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Post by Rick-Manta » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:50 pm

Good points and thanks for the info, I never played the XBOX live arcade versions of the games, so now I'm iching to!

The PS1 sound changes were supposed to give better effects like echos, fire the pistol or shotgun in a small room or low ceiling area and it would echo, in the open areas it didn't. I thought that was cool but was hard to notice when you've got cyberdemon rockets going off all around you! Something I prefered about the PC and even SNES versions was the map with 'you are here' before each level, I know it's not at all a story driven game but I thought it adds to the atmosphere, I guess I'm just sad like that :oops:

I'm not certain on the technicalities but I understood that the Jaguar had to share a certain chip for sound and graphics so to have the higher res crisp graphics than many seem to be a fan of, it meant no music in level only in the stats and menu screens, of course they'd be a couple of levels missing with music because of the storage space on a cartridge like has been mentioned.

Slightly different subject, but still on topic. My Playstation DOOM refuses to load the later levels from about level 20 onwards which also includes the secret levels like club doom, also tried it on my PSone (the PS1 slim) and the same result. After buying another disk, again, won't load from level 20 on both my consoles! The sad thing is my 3DO won't load any copy I buy of Quarantine either, so scientifically looking at all the variables the problem must be: ME!

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Post by Martin III » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:41 pm

Austin wrote:Regarding the Saturn version, it is a botched port of the PlayStation version. It's the same game, but has a horrible framerate in areas (mostly the wide open stages, like in parts of DOOM II and towards the end of Ultimate DOOM), and it has a mildly-tolerable framerate on the indoor areas. There are rumors that the Japanese version has a smoother framerate, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I'll eventually find out, but I don't feel like paying $40 - $50 for an import version of a game that's likely to be as bad as the US one.
The folks at the SegaSaturn.co.uk forums investigated this a few months back. Their findings were:

1.Yes, it does have a smoother frame rate.
2.No, it's still not what you would call a "decent" frame rate.
3.No, it's not worth laying down $40-50 for, especially not if you already have the USA or PAL version. One guy said he wouldn't have even noticed the difference if he hadn't been looking for it.
Austin wrote:I have to also say, it's a shame the Jag version didn't get music. Carmack said that if Atari had given them a larger cart size to work with, they would have been able to implent it.
Are you sure? When I mentioned the music to a guy who's a diehard Jaguar fan, his reply to me was "From what I understand, the music might even be there in the source, but Carmack had trouble with performance when it was enabled."

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Post by Austin » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:13 pm

Rick-Manta wrote:Good points and thanks for the info, I never played the XBOX live arcade versions of the games, so now I'm iching to!
Yep, they are awesome. Basically flawless conversions with some other novelties like online play (although no one plays these days).
Rick-Manta wrote:Something I prefered about the PC and even SNES versions was the map with 'you are here' before each level, I know it's not at all a story driven game but I thought it adds to the atmosphere, I guess I'm just sad like that :oops:
Likewise. The map screen is partially what helped make DOOM what it is. The third episode map screen especially is cool as hell (no pun intended).
Martin III wrote:1.Yes, it does have a smoother frame rate.
2.No, it's still not what you would call a "decent" frame rate.
3.No, it's not worth laying down $40-50 for, especially not if you already have the USA or PAL version. One guy said he wouldn't have even noticed the difference if he hadn't been looking for it.
Well, that's a bummer. I was even thinking about plunking down the money on a copy today, just to verify myself. From what I read on another site (I think it was a DOOM Wiki of some sort), supposedly the link play is still in the Japanese (and Euro) version as well. Interesting.
Martin III wrote:Are you sure? When I mentioned the music to a guy who's a diehard Jaguar fan, his reply to me was "From what I understand, the music might even be there in the source, but Carmack had trouble with performance when it was enabled."
No, I'm not, haha. I could have sworn I read a blog entry Carmack did, or perhaps some kind of interview, but when I searched for it again just today on the web all I could find were some guys over at Jaguar Sector saying what I said. I guess we can take that theory with a grain of salt. :(

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Post by Rick-Manta » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:32 pm

Awesome! I have an XBOX 180 :lol: gathering dust but Doom isn't on the now Live Marketplace, is there anyway I can get it on my xbox1, would I be able to download the data to the console to be able to play it offline?

I think when PSN and Microsofts online console gaming first came to be, they had demos of the available games to tempt people into getting into it, hopefully I can find one of DOOOOOM!
Likewise. The map screen is partially what helped make DOOM what it is. The third episode map screen especially is cool as hell (no pun intended).
Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one. The PS1 didn't have episode breaks either so when you finish Phobos (knee deep in the dead) you go straight to the first Deimos level (the shores of hell, i think?) until finally the first level in Hell, yes you see the red sky/backdrops but there's was nothing to say you're somewhere else ..and the demons face PC's last level (with John Romeros face inside it if you had the no clipping cheat on) isn't in the PS1 version because it included the ultimate doom levels and therefore was the last level anymore. It's not in the 3DO, Jaguar, SNES or 32X versions either mind :wink:

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Post by Austin » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:44 pm

Rick-Manta wrote:Awesome! I have an XBOX 180 :lol: gathering dust but Doom isn't on the now Live Marketplace, is there anyway I can get it on my xbox1, would I be able to download the data to the console to be able to play it offline?

I think when PSN and Microsofts online console gaming first came to be, they had demos of the available games to tempt people into getting into it, hopefully I can find one of DOOOOOM!
Ultimate DOOM is no longer available in the XBOX Live marketplace (licensing issues, I believe), but DOOM II is.

As far as the original XBOX, like I said, you can get the DOOM 3 Collector's Edition (silver metal packaging) bundle. It includes Ultimate DOOM and DOOM II on the disc on top of DOOM 3. I am pretty sure DOOM 3 XBOX is backwards compatible on the 360, so you might still be able to play them there.

The XBOX version of the DOOM 3 expansion pack, Resurrection of Evil, also apparently includes these games, as well as the Master Levels for DOOM II pack on top of that.

If you have a modded original XBOX, you can download source ports of DOOM and DOOM II, as well as other DOOM engine games like Heretic and (I think) Hexen.

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Post by Rick-Manta » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:51 pm

Thanks Austin, I don't have a 360 but I think the Collectors Edition Doom 3 will be on it's way to me soon :D

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Post by Rick-Manta » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Sorry to cough this up the second time but I just wanted to say that I got XBOX 1 Doom 3 collectors with the originals, so now have again experienced ALL DOOMs. Thanks again for letting me know about it Austin.

It's basically DOOM 95 (the 'for windows' version) with the added multiplayer and split-screen. Using an XBOX controller (when they aren't going faulty, common problem!) is fantastic as the full analogue movement is so smooth and responsive and you shoot with the trigger button so thumbs are movement only. There's no up and down to look but it still feels like playing a modern game and is far supierior than PS1 version control pad or PC with mouse/keyboard combo (the PS1 mouse is compatible with DOOM but it's terrible as you walk by rolling it forward!!) I'm not sure if it's a true port as it is identical to the PC and the Xbox is likely to be running it as emulation.

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Post by Austin » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:45 pm

Yeah, it's tough for me to include the XBOX and XBOX 360 ports when considering the best "home" version available, because it's clear they are straight PC conversions. Then again, why play some of the older ones when you have these? For novelty's sake, I suppose.. :lol:

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Post by T2KFreeker » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:29 am

Austin wrote:Yeah, it's tough for me to include the XBOX and XBOX 360 ports when considering the best "home" version available, because it's clear they are straight PC conversions. Then again, why play some of the older ones when you have these? For novelty's sake, I suppose.. :lol:
Easy, I actually HATE the controls on the XBOX versions. Very sad that you can't set them. I hate the fact that you have to use one stick for forward, back, and strafe, and then the other stick to turn. It makes no sense to me for this game at all. I'd rather have the classic deal where you move with the analogue and then strafe with the triggers. Very crap that you can't set it either. As a side note, also the reason I was pissed when I got QUAKE 4 for my 360. It comes with a PC perfect port of QUAKE 2 that you can't swap the sticks on. Totally crap for me. With this garbage, and the fact that there are so many of us out there that play Southpaw style with a control pad, it's really stupid that this isn't an option in ANY console FPS.
This is a stick up! Put all of your 3DO games in the bag and nobody gets hurt!

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Post by Austin » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Hate is a bit of a strong word, isn't it? :lol:

In all seriousness though, I don't understand why a custom control setup wasn't included with these. That's kind of going against its PC roots, you know? Especially when it's a flawless port of said-PC game.

Never really minded the control setup myself though, it's exactly how I would want it, mimicking the PC control setup I use--One stick moves forward and back and strafes left and right (common modern-day WSAD or arrow key setup), and the other turns (aka, the mouse). L and R fire and run (perfect!) and the face buttons switch weapons and open doors.

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Post by Martin III » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:11 pm

Austin wrote:Yeah, it's tough for me to include the XBOX and XBOX 360 ports when considering the best "home" version available, because it's clear they are straight PC conversions. Then again, why play some of the older ones when you have these? For novelty's sake, I suppose.. :lol:
Well, there's the alternate soundtrack on the Playstation and Saturn versions, which is higher quality and (in my opinion) far more appropriate to the game than the original soundtrack. Plus the remixed version on the 3DO version, of course.

Also, some of the older versions (specifically, the Jaguar, Playstation, Saturn, and 3DO versions) contain levels which aren't included on the PC version or any recent ports of the game and which, due to legal reasons, probably won't be included in any future ports either. And the Saturn and Playstation versions include an enemy which doesn't appear in any other version. Finally, I prefer a password system over a save function.

Obviously none of the old versions are going to be the pick of your average gamer, but if you're a serious Doom fan (or simply don't happen to own either of Microsoft's home consoles, like me :) ) they have their advantages.

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Post by Austin » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:41 pm

Martin III wrote:Also, some of the older versions (specifically, the Jaguar, Playstation, Saturn, and 3DO versions) contain levels which aren't included on the PC version or any recent ports of the game and which, due to legal reasons, probably won't be included in any future ports either. And the Saturn and Playstation versions include an enemy which doesn't appear in any other version. Finally, I prefer a password system over a save function.
That, sir, is ass-backwards in every way imaginable. But I have to respect you for that. :P

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Post by Trev » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:37 am

Lol, I actually kinda agree w/Martin ... but maybe for different reasons. I hate having to change batteries , so for games from the cart generations I prefer password saves.
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Post by Martin III » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:57 pm

Yeah, I like being able to have access to any level I've reached without having to keep two dozen save files. Plus, I don't have to worry about the many ways that save files can be lost. Finally, I can play the same game on any console or emulator without going through the complicated process of transferring data; if I'm over at a friend's and wake up late one night with an urge to continue my game, so long as I have the pad with my passwords with me I can just start 'er up, take down the password when I finish a level, and continue from there when I get home. :D

Of course it's a different story with games where there's a lot more data to save, but since all Doom has to deal with is health, ammo, and level number, passwords make more sense.

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Post by Austin » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:02 pm

You make some good points. I haven't thought about it that way before. :)

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Post by Trev » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:00 am

As long as the passwords aren't 30 characters long ,w/lots of wierd symbols that are hard to read, I'm usually ok w/them.
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Re: Doom on 3DO

Post by ArfredHitchcacku » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:26 pm

I'll go to my grave saying it's a good game.

Key word: Good GAME, terrible port. Unlike what "Video Game Critic" may say, (I really, REALLY hate that guy sometimes) the 3DO was MORE than capable of handling Doom, which is only evidenced by such games as Need for Speed, Road Rash, and Killing Time. It was just a lazy port, as was the Saturn version.

To me, what is the definitive statement on whether the game is good or not is whether it's worth playing today compared to running the game on a smexy PC with a smexy Windows 7 Source Port in 1080p HDX Turbo Hyper Super. To me, that's a yes. The soundtrack is amazing, and *WARNINGFANBOYCOMMENT* Doom on the freaking 3DO just can't be beat, with that controller, 320x240 resolution, and CD Scan noises...It's even cooler if you have the box and instruction manual, which I unfortunately don't.

Of course, the biggest, and pretty much ONLY problem (The level selection might not be 100%) is the lag, but really, it's livable. Bad, but livable. I find myself pressing the button in advance when circle-strafing around enemies, and while it's a devastating blow, I just don't see how people think it's a deal-breaker. My best conclusion is that they just don't like the 3DO as much as me, of course this doesn't go for everyone who doesn't like it, but I do hear a lot of criticism of this port from a lot of people.

By the way, I liked the SNES port quite a bit too. :wink:
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Post by Austin » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:36 pm

I enjoyed (and still do to a tiny degree) the SNES version. At least it had the excuse of being a system that probably shouldn't have been able to handle it though. :lol:

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Re: Doom on 3DO

Post by Trev » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:34 am

ArfredHitchcacku wrote: By the way, I liked the SNES port quite a bit too. :wink:
I always thought it was kinda cool that they managed to port it to the aging SNES hardware. Do you know if Nintendo censored or edited anything in it?
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Re: Doom on 3DO

Post by FrumpleOrz » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:49 am

I always thought it was kinda cool that they managed to port it to the aging SNES hardware. Do you know if Nintendo censored or edited anything in it?
I had it as a kid and I don't remember there being anything too out of line being gone. It wasn't like the terrible Wolfenstein port or anything.[/quote]

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Post by Trev » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:56 am

I guess the big N was mellowing out by that time. I remember Wolfenstein had those big giant rats. :lol:
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Post by ArfredHitchcacku » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:59 am

Trev wrote:I guess the big N was mellowing out by that time. I remember Wolfenstein had those big giant rats. :lol:
Yeah, I can confirm there's no censorship, although I'm pretty sure the swastika is gone, as it was from pretty much every console port. But I honestly think Wolfenstein 3D on the SNES is an awesome port too, I hated it at first for the censorship and different music, but it runs well and the gameplay is just as fun as ever.
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Post by Austin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:25 am

ArfredHitchcacku wrote:Yeah, I can confirm there's no censorship, although I'm pretty sure the swastika is gone, as it was from pretty much every console port.
The swastika is in the 3DO and Jaguar versions of Wolfenstein 3D.

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Post by ArfredHitchcacku » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:48 am

Austin wrote:
ArfredHitchcacku wrote:Yeah, I can confirm there's no censorship, although I'm pretty sure the swastika is gone, as it was from pretty much every console port.
The swastika is in the 3DO and Jaguar versions of Wolfenstein 3D.
Well those are the most bad@$$ systems of their time. 8)
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Post by Martin III » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:43 pm

Funny that the SNES version of Doom should come up, as I was just trying that version out via emulation. Can't say that I find it good for anything beyond curiosity value; while many aspects of it are done very well, the graphics are so poor that they interfere with the gameplay. In many cases it's hard to determine what an object is supposed to be, or to differentiate enemies from the walls behind them.

Also, both your character and the enemies have an annoying tendency to get stuck on the walls. I've more than once encountered an enemy who was looking right at me but couldn't attack because he was too busy vibrating in a vain attempt to free himself of the wall to his right.

This might be one version of the game you can chalk up the 3DO version as being superior to.
ArfredHitchcacku wrote:
Trev wrote:I guess the big N was mellowing out by that time. I remember Wolfenstein had those big giant rats. :lol:
Yeah, I can confirm there's no censorship, although I'm pretty sure the swastika is gone, as it was from pretty much every console port.
The blood impacts from gunfire are also cut, though presumably due to the graphical limitations rather than censorship.

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