What is your preferred 3DO console?

All general 3DO chat here please.

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What is your preferred 3DO?

Panasonic FZ-1
22
59%
Panasonic FZ-10
12
32%
Goldstar
2
5%
Other (Sanyo, 3DO Blaster etc....)
1
3%
 
Total votes: 37

brento
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Post by brento » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:58 pm

Calavera wrote:
3DO Experience wrote:It's just a goldstar. Nothing special about it other than he has no clue what it's worth.
Well I know that the GDO-101M plays burnt games, but thats the only difference I know of.
i was under the impression that every model was able to play backups?

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bitrate
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Post by bitrate » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:25 am

brento wrote: i was under the impression that every model was able to play backups?

Every unit has the ability to play copies. Some lasers may be a little more touchy than others for various reasons, but there is no copy protection.

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Calavera
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Post by Calavera » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:45 am

I also thought that until I saw this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxmIuyQstiQ
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bitrate
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Post by bitrate » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:24 am

Calavera wrote:I also thought that until I saw this video

Thought what? There has never been any copy protection for any 3DO system.

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Post by brento » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:28 am

bitrate wrote:
Calavera wrote:I also thought that until I saw this video

Thought what? There has never been any copy protection for any 3DO system.
According to the video description "The Goldstar 3DO GDO-202P hardware include a copy protection."

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bitrate
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Post by bitrate » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:32 am

brento wrote: According to the video description "The Goldstar 3DO GDO-202P hardware include a copy protection."

That is simply false for a lot of reasons.

If you want to implement copy protection, you need to do it on the media as well as the console (unless you are doing something like data position measurement, which the 3DO is incapable of). No 3DO software was ever copy protected, so it doesn't make much sense to start producing hardware with some form of check for something that doesn't exist on any of the games.

Additionally, I have a Russian friend who ONLY plays CD-R's on his GDO-202P as he doesn't own any legitimate software.

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Old Gregg
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Post by Old Gregg » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:43 pm

bitrate wrote:Additionally, I have a Russian friend who ONLY plays CD-R's on his GDO-202P as he doesn't own any legitimate software.
Yea his name is mnemonic!
I'm Old Gregg!

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Rincewind
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Post by Rincewind » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:07 pm

Why am I not surprised that the FZ-1 is winning? :)
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Calavera
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Post by Calavera » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:10 am

bitrate wrote:
brento wrote: According to the video description "The Goldstar 3DO GDO-202P hardware include a copy protection."

That is simply false for a lot of reasons.

If you want to implement copy protection, you need to do it on the media as well as the console (unless you are doing something like data position measurement, which the 3DO is incapable of). No 3DO software was ever copy protected, so it doesn't make much sense to start producing hardware with some form of check for something that doesn't exist on any of the games.

Additionally, I have a Russian friend who ONLY plays CD-R's on his GDO-202P as he doesn't own any legitimate software.
I have no idea, this guy claims that his 3DO will not read CD-Rs without the swap trick, so I don't know.
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brento
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Post by brento » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:24 am

Rincewind wrote:Why am I not surprised that the FZ-1 is winning? :)
because unless it's the DS, first generation models of consoles always look the best :P

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Post by Trev » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:58 am

brento wrote:
Rincewind wrote:Why am I not surprised that the FZ-1 is winning? :)
because unless it's the DS, first generation models of consoles always look the best :P
I always liked the 2nd model Sega Master System better than the 1st.
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3DOKid
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Post by 3DOKid » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:06 am

Which one was the second one? I liked the curvier model of Mega Drive (Genesis) I think it was the first.

I'm surprised the FZ10 get's so much love. Only because i didn't think there were that many out there :)

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Post by Scarlettkitten » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:00 pm

I vote FZ1, tough as old boots. I dropped one on my foot and it hurt like hell so they've got to be the best. 8)

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Rincewind
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Post by Rincewind » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:39 am

Scarlettkitten wrote:I vote FZ1, tough as old boots. I dropped one on my foot and it hurt like hell so they've got to be the best. 8)
Painful way to establish durability.

Of course reason why I voted for FZ-1 is because that is the only console I have. I would venture to guess that the FZ-1 is more commonly owned by 3DO fans compared to the FZ-10 or at least it is preferred but thats not to say that there aren't those would might have both FZ-1 and FZ-10 as well as other third party versions either Goldstar or Sanyo.
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Post by Anonymous » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:22 pm

I voted for the Sanyo, its just cool looking.. Sadly mine is dead..

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Calavera
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Post by Calavera » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:56 am

bitrate wrote:
brento wrote: According to the video description "The Goldstar 3DO GDO-202P hardware include a copy protection."

That is simply false for a lot of reasons.

If you want to implement copy protection, you need to do it on the media as well as the console (unless you are doing something like data position measurement, which the 3DO is incapable of). No 3DO software was ever copy protected, so it doesn't make much sense to start producing hardware with some form of check for something that doesn't exist on any of the games.

Additionally, I have a Russian friend who ONLY plays CD-R's on his GDO-202P as he doesn't own any legitimate software.
The person who posted the video said this

This is US patent:

International Publication Number: WO 97/45836

Applicant: THE 3DO COMPANY (US/US); 600 Galveston Drive, Redwood City, CA 94063 (US).

Title: OPTICAL DISK WITH COPY PROTECTION

Priority Data: 08/655,961 31 May 1996 (31.05.96) US

------------------------------­--------

Not the all 3DO manufacturers was include in their consoles copy protection capabilities, but a Goldstar in GDO-202P was.
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Nikk3do
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Post by Nikk3do » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:54 am

Hi, everyone!

This person, who told about copy protection in GDO-202P, is I am. I want to say a few words about the console GDO-202P. Sorry about my english.:oops: In Russia we have several models Goldstar 3DO - 101 & 202 models are mostly common. We know 202P as problematic console (all of CD-Rs will be rejected allways). First of all, it seems the console laser head can't read CD-R, but if you burn audio CD-R and try to read it, this CD-R will be readed successfully. The console hardware somehow determines the type of CD. That patent describes some principles differentiation what kind of media used. So, I think Goldstar use this patent to make hardware copy protection in GDO-202P.

Update:
Here, the patent - http://www.mediafire.com/?5d6h6no4yrilqod
----------------------------------
By topic:
My favorite console is FZ-10. Because this is my first 3DO. :)
Last edited by Nikk3do on Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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3DOKid
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Post by 3DOKid » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:00 am

Nikk3do wrote:Hi, everyone!

This person, who told about copy protection in GDO-202P, is I am. I want to say a few words about the console GDO-202P. Sorry about my english.:oops: In Russia we have several models Goldstar 3DO - 101 & 202 models are mostly common. We know 202P as problematic console (all of CD-Rs will be rejected allways). First of all, it seems the console laser head can't read CD-R, but if you burn audio CD-R and try to read it, this CD-R will be readed successfully. The console hardware somehow determines the type of CD. That patent describes some principles differentiation what kind of media used. So, I think Goldstar use this patent to make hardware copy protection in GDO-202P.
----------------------------------
By topic:
My favorite console is FZ-10. Because this is my first 3DO. :)

That's actually very interesting. I'm going to see if i can find the patent. thanks for joining.

3DOKid.

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bitrate
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Post by bitrate » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:49 pm

Disk copy protection discussion can become very large and tech heavy, so I will try to limit what I write here.
Although I am an engineer and do understand elements of encryption and copy protection, I am no expert in these two fields, so please keep this in mind.

There are a number of issues here.

This patent had an international filing date of May 28, 1997 and a publication date of Dec. 4, 1997. This means that the patent was not even filed until almost a full year after the last 3DO game was released. Yes, the priority data field is populated with a date of May 31, 1996, but even this is just a month before the last title ever produced for the 3DO hit the shelves.
Additionally, this priority data may not even contain information directed at copy protection. It may have to do with data parsing between the drive and console, the encryption that protects against unauthorized code execution, or anything for that matter.

Although not unprecedented, companies do not usually patent a technology half a decade after it was developed and mass-marketed either. Especially a technology such as this, aimed at protecting profits.

They also do not begin implementing a technology such as this when the target device is all but completely dead.
It doesn't make sense from an economics perspective, not to mention that depending on the implementation you run the risk of breaking the machines ability to play any software released in the early years of the platforms existence.


The patent itself describes numerous disk copy protection mechanisms and nothing specific to the 3DO Multiplayer. In fact, the 3DO Multiplayer is not even mentioned.


If I had to guess at why your 202p refuses to boot CD-R's I would say it may well have to do with the disks failing the unauthorized code verification due in part to Goldstar's finicky drive and the inherent "less-than-perfect" copies CD burners and CD-R media produce. A small binary difference (as read by a Goldstar drive) here or there in an FMV clip of a particular game for example, may not make much of a difference at all if the game successfully booted and is running. However, that same "small" binary difference can be catastrophic when the console is expecting precision in the hash during code authentication.





I'm not trying to sound rude here, so let me apologize if I am coming across that way. It may end up that I am wrong here. When I examine this from an historical, technological, and economics view point, it just doesn't add up for me. There is also the issue of my Russian acquaintance who runs CD-R's in his 202p. It has been a while since I have spoken with him, but I do remember him commenting on the stubborness of his unit when reading his "software". He did say, however, that he was able to run his copies.


In the interest of curiosity, what method of disk copy protection do you think is being employed by your 202p?

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Post by Nikk3do » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:09 am

I think why Goldstar used copy protection in its console - it's because they were the manufacturer of 3DO software. In this way Goldstar protect their business.
It is difficult to say what type of protection used in the console. The patent describes the use of a microcontroller, which decides the legitimacy of the disc. This microcontroller is present in the console. I think that protection mechanism is based on tracking errors. Discs prefabricated and CD-R have different errors characteristics. But this is just my guess.

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bitrate
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Post by bitrate » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:47 am

Hmmmm... a microcroller.

Do you have a picture of it you can post and/or a part number?
I assume they went with an MCU that has on-chip memory, or have you found support IC's?

This is interesting.

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Post by Nikk3do » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:22 pm

Here, the photo and datasheet - http://www.mediafire.com/?l991vehmcv713sr

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Post by phatrat1982 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:34 pm

I am leaning towards FZ-1 because it looks like the one that I remember reading about. Or the FZ-10 haven't really decided yet.
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Post by Jones » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:11 pm

Nikk3do wrote:I think why Goldstar used copy protection in its console - it's because they were the manufacturer of 3DO software. In this way Goldstar protect their business.
It is difficult to say what type of protection used in the console. The patent describes the use of a microcontroller, which decides the legitimacy of the disc. This microcontroller is present in the console. I think that protection mechanism is based on tracking errors. Discs prefabricated and CD-R have different errors characteristics. But this is just my guess.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that information!

How would that microcontroller react to your IDE adapter?
Would this copy protection device make it impossible to use
your IDE adapter with Goldstar 3DOs?

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Post by Nikk3do » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:51 am

Jones wrote:How would that microcontroller react to your IDE adapter?
Would this copy protection device make it impossible to use
your IDE adapter with Goldstar 3DOs?
My version of IDE adaptor only for FZ-10. So I dont know how microcontroller shall react to external CD-drive in Goldstar 3DO. I think not only microcontroller can react to the CD-R. The console BIOS may controlling boot process too. When IDE adaptor is attached to console, the native CD controller and antipiracy MCU must be disabled. In this case, to correct boot sequence - BIOS must be patched.

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Post by carlo3do » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:54 am

Do you still manufacturing ur IDE adapter?? and how much it cost :)

iam thinking of striping down an fz1 and and put it in a pc case and convince myself i own a 3DO BLASTER when iam playing with it. now thats a cool project
:wink:

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Post by sneth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:02 am

take off the ugle case and put an uglier case on it?
Just paint the FZ-1 beige... that will probably be a lot easier.

Nikk3do
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Post by Nikk3do » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:00 am

carlo3do wrote:Do you still manufacturing ur IDE adapter?? and how much it cost :)

iam thinking of striping down an fz1 and and put it in a pc case and convince myself i own a 3DO BLASTER when iam playing with it. now thats a cool project
:wink:
I dont manufacture this adapter, I just buy this cool stuff from MNEMO. You may ask MNEMO about this - mnemonic-3do@km.ru

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Post by Jones » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:12 am

(A bit off topic)

I've seen your 3DO 3d-engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIxp64LA ... re=related

Does it use any 3d acceleration from the CLIO/MADAM custom chips,
or is it purely software based rendering using only the ARM cpu?

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Post by Nikk3do » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:11 pm

Jones wrote:Does it use any 3d acceleration from the CLIO/MADAM custom chips, or is it purely software based rendering using only the ARM cpu?
Yes, this simple 3D engine use 3DO hardware to render scene (3DO math accelerator uses also). I try to write my own engine and I learning to 3DO architecture in this process. By the way, this IDE adaptor is helpful for my homebrews, becouse I dont have a native devstation to test my samples on real hardware. CD-RW is more cheaper way then CD-R. :-)

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