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Frame Rate - do you see it?

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:58 am
by 3DOKid
There are, so I have figured out, two types of people on this planet. Those that see frame rate issues, and those that don't. Me? I've never seen it. Ask me, of any platform, ever, which game had the worst frame-rate and I couldn't tell you. they are all the same - aren't they?

Apparently not.

To be fair, I don't often see pop-up either. I don't know what a 'jaggy' is and screen tearing? I've read about it on Wikipedia, but I never seem to spot it. ...and I've forgotten what it is now anyway.

My LCD/DS/PSP/GP2X may or may not have dead-pixels... (what am I looking for again?) And all controllers, except the Atari jaguar, are alright in my book. The jaguar one, my fingers always seemed too short.

Which leads me to my question: is the frame rate in Doctor Hauzer good or bad? Someone on YouTube asked me, and from my blissfully unaware world, I don't know...

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:10 pm
by bonefish
Dr. Hauzer doesn't have a very good frame rate but it doesn't need it! Doom on the 3do though... that is a great example of a poor frame rate.

Doom on a 386/33sx had the worst frame rate ever at full screen!

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:48 pm
by 3DO Experience
You are very lucky not to see frame rates. There is no way to escape them once you start to notice. Not just consoles but PC and TV as well. The only time anything has ever looked smooth to me is on film, progressive video (done correctly), and PAL video signals on non-CRT displays. And even with those film still has that little bit of shutter to it and PAL has that TV show feel to it. But yeah some games are horrendous and I can't understand how people don't notice.

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:35 am
by klogg
The game with best frame rate on 3DO is Blade Force, I think.
The worst one, besides DOOM? Hmm. Autobahnn Tokio?

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:48 am
by Lemmi
i am in the same boat as the 3dokid

i know what the terms mean but i just dont pay attention to them on the screen plus i dont like to many first person games, like Doom

the only framerate issue i really noticed was playing Everquest and that was because i only had 32mb of ram and the screen moved once every 30 seconds, upping it to 64mb fixed that problem (this was back in 1999) :D

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:27 am
by UnholyTancred
I notice framerate, I mean how can you NOT notice it but I've never played Dr. Hauzer so I can't judge that.

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:57 am
by pitsunami
I dont care for frame rate! Ofcourse it depends,a friend of mine finished oblivion with an ancient pc with incredibly awful frame rate...i cant do that but i dont really care... :D

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:01 am
by Mobius
I definitely notice frame rates. I don't mind lower frame rates as long as they're consistent, though. It's sudden drops that are the most irritating.

Screen tear, though... That bugs the crap out of me no matter what.

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:13 am
by Trev
Technical problems like that are usually only noticable to me when a game already sucks. If I'm not having fun, I'm more likely to notice things wrong with it. That being said, check out 3DO's shame BC Racers for an example of one of the worst frame rates I've ever seen! You can be approaching a corner and by the time the screen updates, be around it (or more likely off the track) Blade Force also has very noticeable pop up (or would it be called 'draw in'?) I certainly don't put it in league w/BC Racers, but it is nevertheless a notable 3DO example.

I know the basic terms, but it is mostly through reading gaming mags. I also like to know them for when I write a review, but since I really only do this for me and hardly anyone will ever read them (except for the occasional 3DO review I post) it doesn't much matter.

Overall, unless the problem is pronounced or the game is just dreadful to begin with, I usually don't notice things like that.

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:28 am
by mattyg
believe it or not my first allegiance is to car racing games - therefore my biggest bane of existence is draw in / pop up issues - constantly scanning the horizon for oncoming traffic and obstacles.

Especially bad games have great backgrounds that are detailed to the horizon but you are suddenly faced with a massive vehicle that should have gradually grown bigger instead of a huge lump in your face.

Also early 3d racers (and some current ones inconceivably) have draw in issues when driving down hills etc - you should be able to see corners and where the road ends but once again you are suddenly confronted with a turn that in the real world should have been visible.


I hate slow down - if the processor cannot effectively handle the amount of commands thrown at it the programmers need to rethink or recode
If proper testing is done this shouldn't've happened on any platform , any era - full stop!

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:39 am
by nocturne
I notice frame rates in games and movies, if the frame rate is low i feel nauseus. A good non game example would be the movie Fight Club,, i saw all the genitals and everything else, I was with my partener and kept saying, did you see that??? My belief is, if you have a history of playing PC games, they are usually set at 85mhz or around that level, so when you go back to console games you notice alot more. My advise, don't play pc games?

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:49 pm
by NikeX

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:53 pm
by 3DOKid
erm. No. I forgot, thanks to a couple of beers, that I was supposed to be looking for pop-up and all I can remember thinking is: Oooh look they're purple. For an Amiga game, it looked pretty good to me. Sorry. I'll be quiet. :)

Edit: Still didn't see it. Brain focused on the fact that graphically it seems to have the edge on Escape from Monster Manor on the 3DO. :(

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:25 pm
by 3DO Experience
3DOKid wrote:...graphically it seems to have the edge on Escape from Monster Manor on the 3DO. :(
I think you need glasses.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:19 am
by UnholyTancred

But I agree with 3DOKid. The graphics aren't bad at all.

As a matter of fact this game looks pretty good. It looks like something I'd playthrough if it had a smoother framerate.

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:04 pm
by NikeX
Ok, this time even 3DOKid will see it: ... re=related

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:43 pm
by UnholyTancred

I own that game on the Genesis. Graphics are MUCH better on the Genny but the framerate is still abysmal. It's a terrible game in every single category. I bought it for shits and giggles complete for around $3 a few months back. It's good for a few laughs when you're drunk.

But damn you guys I actually want a CD32 now! After watching that vid, I checked out Gloom and some other gameplay vids and it looks like a pretty interesting console. Too bad that the cheapest eBay auctions are around $120+

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:49 pm
by 3DOKid
Hard Drivin' the arcade was mega! Well, I thought it was.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:13 am
by UnholyTancred
Dr. Hauzer does have bad framerate but it's definitely playable and tolerable unlike DOOM. Things really slow down when you're in overhead view but otherwise things are fine.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:04 pm
by Trev
The vid of Hard Drivin was funny to watch. I thought the version I have for the Lynx was poor, but this looks terrible.

But damn you guys I actually want a CD32 now! After watching that vid, I checked out Gloom and some other gameplay vids and it looks like a pretty interesting console. Too bad that the cheapest eBay auctions are around $120+
When was the last time you checked? I swear I saw some in the $70 range not that long ago. Anyway, I wish you the best in finding one, although games are a real pain to locate.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:59 pm
by UnholyTancred
The cheapest buy-it-now is $40 with $70 shipping!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:07 pm
by mattyg
yeah I wish I still had my cd32 , I had one back in the day with around 20 games - sold it buy my first 3do - little did I know that it would actually be more valuable.
Beneath a Steel Sky
Cannon Fodder
Fire and Ice
Chaos Engine
Alien Breed

All awesome - I recommend one to anyone

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:41 am
by Trev

I still don't tend to pay much attention to low framerate issues ... I guess I might be in the minority, although in this case that's probably good.

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:52 am
by Austin
I definitely notice framerates (I'd hope that is obvious, since I'm always complaining about them here!).

I blame PC gaming a lot back in the day. When your computer couldn't keep up, it hit you in the face. A poor/choppy framerate was often the end result (with a double kick in the balls of forced low-quality visuals). When you upgraded though--added more RAM, got a new video card, or bought a brand new rig, you saw the difference immediately.

Play enough versions of the same game, and you should notice framerate differences by default. Go from DOOM on the PC or 360, then go straight to the 3DO one. Then go back. Then go to the SNES one.

I think bad framerates are more noticeable though when they hinder actual gameplay. Checkered Flag on the Jag is a good example. 3DO DOOM is another (already mentioned by several people here). Poor framerates are easier for me to forgive when my ability to play the game appropriately isn't affected (I still notice it though).

Trev--in response to one of your old posts, what you see in Bladeforce is indeed pop-up. I tend to forgive that in games from certain periods (32-bit gen, primarily), again if it doesn't hinder my ability to play the game. If it's a racing game and the cars are popping right out at me with no time to avoid them, that's bad. Bladeforce doesn't really have that. Just your usual pop-up from the era.

Speaking of Bladeforce, it does choke and chop up framerate-wise, but you really have to have a lot on the screen for it to do it. Chances are most of us haven't even gotten that far into it. ;)

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:05 pm
by Trev
I never really played pc games much, so that might contribute to how I tend to notice, or not notice frame rates. Even today I really only use my pc to play games through Scummvm or some old point n' click games through GOG.

You are probably right about Bladeforce ... I don't think too many have beaten it. I remember listening to your review and I think you said that it doesn't get talked about much. For me, it's not cause the game isn't good but because it's too long! I wish it had a mid game save ... even the first level is long. Since I've never gotten very far in it, I don't have a whole lot to say bout it. :oops:

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:25 pm
by NOSAJ19
My example of frame rate issues would be leaving the pit lane in F1 2011 on PS3. Even though the pit lane speed limiter is on, it seems far slower than what a road car would feel like at its speed limit, but then when you get back out on track you can see an immediate increase in the speed of the frame rate.

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:06 am
by Martin III
Trev wrote:I know the basic terms, but it is mostly through reading gaming mags. I also like to know them for when I write a review,
Pretty much the same here. I have very little interest in the technical aspects of video games, and have only seen fit to educate myself in order to write more thorough reviews. Even so, identifying low frame rate is tough; if it's at the level of Iron Angel of the Apocalypse, Virtual Hydlide (Saturn), or SNES Doom then I notice, but otherwise I have to squint to gauge how good the frame rate is. I have a hard time grasping the fact that there are people who actually care whether a game runs at 35 or 40 FPS.

Pop up is something I do pick up on when it affects gameplay, but otherwise... Well, honestly, what's the difference between pop up and no pop up? Surely any object that isn't on the screen to begin with must at some point "pop up" if it's ever going to be on the screen?

I looked up "tearing" on Wikipedia after the conspicuous mention in ewhac's Let's Play of Escape From Monster Manor. I get the idea, but can't think of any occasion where I've actually seen it, even though I must have done so many times by now.

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:23 pm
by NeoGeoNinja
but more so inconsistent framerates > low framerates.

For example, when you play SEGA Rally 2 on the DC, it runs at a perfectly smooth framerate and then as soon as another car appears on screen, it just about manages 25fps. That should never have been the case with that game vs the hardware.

I'm not keen on low framerates, but I can tolerate them more when the game doesn't lie about them (Doom on 3DO & SNES, Chequered Flag for Jag, Daytona for Saturn etc) and shows it's cards honestly and upfront from the outset. I prefer a smooth framerate, but can make do if I enjoy the game enough.

By biggest pet hate as of late is poor framerates on modern gen games. There is quite simply ZERO excuse for it. Whenever I see combat scenes from the latest (and apparently greatest) iteration of Assassins Creed on TV trailers and the like, I always feel nauseous at the sight of the dogsh*t framerate, which apparently is acceptable. But its not, and many always get defensive when I bring it up (like AC is some sort of invulnerable commodity or something?).

How 60fps didn't become the standard 'norm' for this gen, I'll never understand. It's probably more important to me than the stubble and eyebrows on the player characters face causing the slowdown.

TL;DR - I notice framerates...