Laser strain

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MeneGx
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Laser strain

Post by MeneGx » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:01 pm

I'd like to play through Lucienne's quest but I doubt I can afford a copy and my copy of Gex doesn't work, so I'll have to use burned copies with those two. So I'd like to know is it safe to do so? Do correctly burned games strain the laser of the 3DO? I've heard rumors that burned games will shorten the lifespan of the Dreamcast, but they've been bunked as far as I know. According to this thread it does strain the system. Am I in any danger if I play through Lucienne's quest and play Gex occasionally, but otherwise stick with regular/legit games? I have 2 3DOs and one of them couldn't read a burned copy of Strahl so I'm kind of paranoid because of that.

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Trev
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Post by Trev » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:03 pm

As you've mentioned, this has been discussed prior. And redundant posts are usually frowned on by the mods, especially when it comes to asking suggestions about running software you don't own. Just a polite heads up.
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3DO Experience
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Post by 3DO Experience » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Image
1. Post in the correct forum. In this case Technical Support.
2. If you've already found the thread you need to post in don't start a new one.
3. If the answer is in that thread write something positive instead of asking if it is true.
4. Don't talk about playing burned games you do not own the original of.
5. CD-Rs do cause strain on 3DO laser lenses.
6. CD-Rs do cause strain on Dreamcast laser lenses, I know I had to take one of mine apart to adjust the pot after playing a modded version of Shenmue. A game I actually own.

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goldenband
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Post by goldenband » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:55 am

3DO Experience wrote:6. CD-Rs do cause strain on Dreamcast laser lenses, I know I had to take one of mine apart to adjust the pot after playing a modded version of Shenmue. A game I actually own.
The whole Dreamcast issue is different, though, because the "scene" also made massive changes to the data structure of discs in order to accommodate the smaller size of CD-Rs. By eliminating redundant information that was included to minimize seek time, they made the laser assembly have to work a lot harder. I don't know whether Shenmue was over 650/700MB per disc, but I'd assume so.

One thing I can say for sure is that on my Sega CD, many of my original discs don't perform as well as clean, burned copies on quality media (Taiyo Yuden). If the original disc isn't near-immaculate, and if there's any substantial scratching at all, a clean burn will usually outperform it. The 3DO is more finicky, though.

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sneth
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Post by sneth » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:22 am

We probably have two factors contributing to these problems.

Yes, you may need adjust the pot to read CDR's.
These are also very old machines now. The laser is not as powerful as it used to be. Any additional movement required for the lens will wear out the entire part faster.

I would add, that a new 3DO is far cheaper than the going rate of Luncienne Quest. I would not hesitate to play CDR's. Just use best practices when making these CDR's. Burn at 2-4x, not 48x or whatever.

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Post by a31chris » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:23 pm

sneth wrote:
I would add, that a new 3DO is far cheaper than the going rate of Luncienne Quest. I would not hesitate to play CDR's. Just use best practices when making these CDR's. Burn at 2-4x, not 48x or whatever.
Really? I got lucky on my deal but usually used 3DOs seem to go for $150+. Even at the Potland Retro Gaming Expo they were going for over a $100 even with competing vendors side by side. And that's all beat up.

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Post by Lemmi » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:41 pm

bah i clicked this link thinking someone found a new game called Laser strain :P
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goldenband
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Post by goldenband » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:56 pm

Lemmi wrote:bah i clicked this link thinking someone found a new game called Laser strain :P
Presumably the 3DO tie-in game for this (slightly NSFW) webseries, depicting the long-term consequences of employing that form of...weaponry.

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Post by MeneGx » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:57 pm

3DO Experience wrote: 2. If you've already found the thread you need to post in don't start a new one.
3. If the answer is in that thread write something positive instead of asking if it is true.
I wouldn't have made this thread if there wasn't any conflicting information on the internet
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... ed-working
This isn't the only thread where I've seen people arguing that it's ok to use burned games mind you. And on top of that there's the fact that most 3DO FAQs(*) admit that you can play burned games on the console (there's even a thread about it on this forum), but never mention whether it's harmful to the console or not. If it's a well known fact that burned copies=dead 3DO, you'd think that retro gamers/3DO enthusiasts would advice people to be more cautious.
(*) I'd go as far as saying that every time I've searched information on the 3DO, the fact that it plays burned games has been mentioned on pretty much each article&video I've seen.


And if you read my post from start to finish, you saw that I specified that I'm only intrested in using burned copies on two different occasions (those being Gex and Lucienne's Quest). That's the thing that I want to know: how fast burned copies kill the console. Do couple of playthroughs of 2 burned games kill the console within 20-40 hours of game time? Or does it takes a decade of intensive gaming with mostly/only burned copies untill it really starts affecting the system? Should I be worried for the well-being of my console when 95+% of game time comes from genuine 3DO games, and the remaining <5% from burned ones?
3DO Experience wrote: 4. Don't talk about playing burned games you do not own the original of.
If it was any other game than Lucienne's Quest, I could agree with that statement. 170-180 USD is the limit of what I'm willing to pay for an used video game. Last time I saw Lucienne's Quest on eBay, it was going for 700 dollars. I might be willing to pay 300-350 USD on a copy of Earthbound or Panzer Dragoon Saga, but those two are much more revered amongst the RPG community (and easier to find). Paying twice the money for a much more obscure game that by all accounts doesn't seem anywhere near as great as either of the two just isn't justifiable in my book. Yet the game is so hyped amongst the 3DO game library that I feel it's necessary to experience it in order to get a good grasp of the best that the 3DO has to offer.


And I do own a complete copy of Gex like I mentioned in my post; everything else is fine except for the fact the game just refuses to work.

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goldenband
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Post by goldenband » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:30 pm

MeneGx wrote:Do couple of playthroughs of 2 burned games kill the console within 20-40 hours of game time?
I'm not sure exactly how many hours I logged on my first FZ-1 with burned games, but it was probably in the 10-20 hour range, and I noticed no decrease in performance over that span of time.
MeneGx wrote:Or does it takes a decade of intensive gaming with mostly/only burned copies untill it really starts affecting the system?
No one knows, and any kind of quantitative assessment is pure speculation IMHO. There are way too many variables, and almost no one has anything but collections of anecdotes, most of which often reflect the speaker's bias one way or the other. (Hardcore 3DO collectors potentially have some incentive to believe that burns are "bad"; people who don't own a thing but the system and a pile of CDRs potentially have some incentive to believe that burns are fine.)

I'd say it's reasonable to think that any disc that the 3DO has difficulty reading will potentially take a toll over time -- but it's not at all clear to me that a clean burn on quality media is significantly taxing to the system, and it seems very clear to me that a clean burn is potentially less taxing than an original disc in subpar condition.
MeneGx wrote:Should I be worried for the well-being of my console when 95+% of game time comes from genuine 3DO games, and the remaining <5% from burned ones?
Based on my experience, no, but I'd say to use your ears and eyes. In other words: if the system is stuttering, if the drive is noisy, if the laser mechanism sounds like it's struggling, then take that feedback seriously and don't use that disc. If it's running smoothly and whisper-quiet, then that's significant information too.

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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:44 am

Lemmi wrote:bah i clicked this link thinking someone found a new game called Laser strain :P
:lol:

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sneth
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Post by sneth » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:21 pm

I dont really think there is such a thing as laser strain. The laser is constant power. It doesn't compensate for CDR's.

You can adjust the laser power, which would add wear on it.

There may be some truth to the lens having to adjust more frequently as this is a moving part.

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Re: Laser strain

Post by 3DO Experience » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:40 pm

The term Laser Strain is like the term Laser Rot. Not accurately describing what's happening. De pending on the quality of the disc & burn laser has to read sectors of the CD-R more times than a pressed disc. If it has to read an average of four times more every time it part wears out more quickly, and yes this also increases wear motor also. Even with the best discs I've burned they still have more read time than their pressed counterparts, you can hear the motor working over and over and this is obvious when using an FZ-1 as the light blinks. I first saw this on D's Diner Director's Cut. I ordered the game and while I waited for it to arrive from over seas I used a CD-R copy. When I got the game and put in the actual disc the light blinked far less.


PS. MeneGx, open talk of piracy is not condoned simply because you are not willing to pay what a game costs.
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