unreleased, rumored 'Saturn 2' that would've rivaled M2

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parallaxscroll
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unreleased, rumored 'Saturn 2' that would've rivaled M2

Post by parallaxscroll » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:32 pm

3DO fans constantly dream of the unreleased M2 console.

Well, there was a possibility of a Saturn 2 console (years before Dreamcast) that never happened. It's much less 'solid' than M2, in that there is no confirmation that it existed. However there were many reports & rumors of a Saturn 2, based around a Real3D chipset from Lockheed Martin, the providers of the 3D graphics tech in Sega's Model 2 and Model 3 arcade boards.

There were many articles on Saturn 2 in print and on the web back in the mid 90s, but this was probably the biggest and best:


Next Generation - November 1995
http://img80.imageshack.us/i/saturn2lmc ... 806js.jpg/
http://img122.imageshack.us/i/saturn2lm ... 522rk.jpg/
http://img122.imageshack.us/i/saturn2lm ... 140sq.jpg/



If Saturn 2 had a PowerPC 603 CPU and a Real3D/100 graphic chipset, it would've surpassed M2 in visual performance, by around 2x

Only the 3DO-designed MX (M2.5) chipset would've been more powerful.



The Saturn 2 that I envision for release in 1996-1997 looks something like this (the Hi Saturn Navi):
Image

It has this for a graphics subsystem:
Image

And produces images like this:
Image


It's basicly SEGA's answer to the 3DO-designed, Matsushita manufactured M2:

Image

M2 graphics:
Image
Image

Except that this Saturn is somewhat more powerful.

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Post by 3DOKid » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:47 pm

The last gen was pretty dull (although dazzling compared with this current gen) it would however been something wonderful with a M2 and a Saturn 2 battling it out with the PS2, N64 and Xbox. (and, er, the DC of cause -- but that doesn't make anysense :) )

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Post by parallaxscroll » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:53 am

Saturn 2 and M2 would've ruled that generation if they had been released and given the chance to succeed. Both would've had enough 3D horsepower to run games that developers wanted to make, and gamers dreamed of.

Both could've handled upgraded conversions of Sega Model 2 arcade games (given that M2 and Sat2 would've been more powerful than Model 2 board) and scaled down versions of Model 3 games.

If Saturn 2 had been released in 1996, and had it been succesful, there would've been no need for Dreamcast in 1998, 1999. Instead, a more powerful Saturn 3 (call it Dreamcast or NeoGenesis if you will) would be introduced in 2000 or 2001, a console with at least as much power as the Xbox, and backward compatible with Saturn and/or Saturn 2.

It's too bad these things didn't work out. I feel that both were on the edge of becoming a reality...M2 closer than Saturn 2, but both would've crushed the PS1 and N64. Maybe not in sales, but in quality of games they could've produced.

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Post by Trev » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:40 am

If Saturn 2 had been released in 1996, and had it been succesful
An all but impossible "if" ... Sega was already developing the rep for ditching systems (32X & Sega cd) A new unit a year later? Would have killed them sooner.

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Post by parallaxscroll » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:45 am

This is what Sega should've done

MegaDrive / Genesis is released in 1988 / 1989

MegaCD / SegaCD is released in 1991. It's not only an expansion (CD-ROM media) but also an upgrade with more powerful CPU processor and graphic chips. This actually happened. The SegaCD had a 2nd 68000 CPU and also a custom chip for scaling & rotation. I'm saying, it should've had a more powerful graphic chip allowing more sprites, more colors, more background layers.

No 32X upgrade at all. The only upgrade Genesis gets is SegaCD.


Saturn. The Saturn as it was, the one that came out in late 1994/early 1995 with two SH-2 CPUs and a mess of other chips, never gets released. The Saturn that does come out, comes in 1996, is completely different in architecture with a single PowerPC 603 CPU and a Lockheed Martin Real3D graphics chip. This console is reasonably priced, EASY to write games for, well supported, and extremely powerful. While not as powerful as the immensely expensive Model 3 arcade board, it is stronger than the older Model 2 arcade board (that ran Daytona, VF2, Sega Rally and dozens of other games) , more powerful than N64, more powerful than 3DFX Voodoo cards for PC, and slightly more powerful than 3DO M2. Price is $299. Everything I'm suggesting was possibe. The Real3D/100 chipset from Lockheed Martin really existed. It was more powerful than the Model 2 arcade board, and it was a reasonable fraction of the Model 3 arcade board (which used TWO high-end Real3D-PRO/1000 chips). Sega was really in talks with Lockheed Martin over using Real3D chips in a console (or an upgrade to the existing Saturn). read the Next Generation article I posted. What didn't happen was, all of this coming together.


Sega therefore, never gets a reputation for abandoning hardware.

Genesis+SegaCD is supported all the way through 1996 and even into 1997 after the Saturn comes out.

There's no Genesis, then SegaCD, then 32X ( both killed) then Saturn (killed) then Dreamcast (awesome, but too late).

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Post by Trev » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:42 pm

Sounds reasonable to me.

I agree 32X was a huge error (and Sega themselves admitted it after the fact) Sega cd should have been it for Genesis upgrades ... w/less fmv and more rpgs that took advantage of the cd storgae.

I'm still a Sega fanboy in spite of their blunders, and I love my Scd, Sat, & DC!

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Post by parallaxscroll » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:15 pm

I'm a fan of Sega systems too: SMS, Genesis, SCD, 32X, Sat, DC.

Though I'm an even bigger fan of Sega's arcade systems: the SuperScaler boards, System16, System32, Model 2, Model 3, NAOMI, NAOMI 2, Chihiro, Lindbergh, etc. and of course the games that ran on them.

I've always wished Sega's home consoles more closely reflected the awesomeness what was their arcade games.

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Post by Trev » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:26 pm

I've always wished Sega's home consoles more closely reflected the awesomeness what was their arcade games.
What's your favorite arcade port? I think mine is Sega Rally for the Saturn ... I'm amazed how well the game has aged! Still looks gorgeous all these years later I think.

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Post by 3DO Experience » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:43 pm

parallaxscroll wrote:This is what Sega should've done...
You are so right!
"Wait. You don't have a bag of charcoal in your gaming room???"

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Post by parallaxscroll » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:14 am

Trev wrote:
I've always wished Sega's home consoles more closely reflected the awesomeness what was their arcade games.
What's your favorite arcade port? I think mine is Sega Rally for the Saturn ... I'm amazed how well the game has aged! Still looks gorgeous all these years later I think.

I'm split between OutRun and AfterBurner II on Saturn.

After Burner II for Saturn, Japan (1996), U.S. (1997) was the first time the game was ported home in near arcade-exact form. The 32X version of 1994 was certainly not perfect since it ran at 30fps, whereas the original arcade from 1987 was 60fps. The Saturn version was on par with the arcade. It's funny that it took a decade for After Burner II to recieve a faithful home port.

OutRun for Saturn. This was also the first time for a port of OutRun being basicly arcade-exact. The Saturn version even included a 'smooth mode' where it would run at 60fps, twice the smoothness of the 1986 arcade game which was 30fps. The music was arranged/remixed wonderfully in the Japanese version.

Also of note: Virtual On Oratorio Tangram for Dreamcast. This was the first port of a Model 3 arcade game that wasn't really downgraded. It wasn't arcade-exact, but it was closer than Virtua Fighter 3 and SegaRally2. The gameplay is extremely deep and fun once you get into it. Awesome port.

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Post by 3DOKid » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:47 am

Trev wrote:
I've always wished Sega's home consoles more closely reflected the awesomeness what was their arcade games.
What's your favorite arcade port? I think mine is Sega Rally for the Saturn ... I'm amazed how well the game has aged! Still looks gorgeous all these years later I think.
This or virtua fighter. Thing is, put me in front of a Saga arcade machine and I'm as happy as larry, in front of the consoles...not so.

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Post by BryWI » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:10 pm

I am almost positive that After Burner II was ported to the Sharp x68000 and was almost, if not completly, arcade perfect from what I remember playing on an emulator. Am I wrong? I remember it being a really good port. I am not sure if it came before the Saturn version or not though.

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