:..(

Post by **Devin** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:38 pm

So what's the deal with you Americans against state health care?

Post by **3DO Experience** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:45 am

I'm not against it. I'm all for it, but our politicians aren't. Too bad we don't still tar and feather them when they don't follow the will of the people.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:28 am

Pretty sure a majority of Americans are in favor of some form of state-run healthcare. The ones against it are the ones with the money for lobbyists, though.

Post by **Devin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:15 pm

Mobius wrote:The ones against it are the ones with the money for lobbyists, though.

and the loudest mouths! It was funny to watch a real journalist go into the 912 Tea Party and rip the protesters protest to shreds. It's on YouTube right here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LcMqqFGvMs

They were all talk and once he asked the protesters to go into the details they just had blank expressions. Priceless!

desiv · Post by **desiv** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:51 pm

My state has a pretty good state run health plan (OHP - Oregon Health Plan) and I'm glad to pay a bit more in my taxes to make sure people who can't afford it normally, will get health care.

But oh my gosh, the cries of "socialism" are driving me crazy.

Judging by people I know (some of them I'm related to), Obama is going to turn the U.S. into a socialist state, just before he allows all of our allies to be attacked, and then the U.S. is wiped out by terrorists.

I've already told some people that I'm going to remind them what they said when that doesn't happen.
(If it does.. well.. then.. Ooopps. My bad.

)

desiv

Lemmi · Post by **Lemmi** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:08 pm

Mobius wrote:Pretty sure a majority of Americans are in favor of some form of state-run healthcare. The ones against it are the ones with the money for lobbyists, though.

also the politicians would probably lose all the money they get from the drug companies, and the jobs they get with those drug companies after they leave office

the doctor im seeing now wont see me unless i can come up with 20% of my total bill. in other words they will refuse to care for me because of money. thats why the $20,000 operation to fix my broken heel was not done, and i had to let it heal all fucked up on its own, now i have lost about 40 % of the movement in my foot and i still cant walk on it yet

so break your foot, lose your job because you cant come into work, cant pay the doctor because you lost your job = fucked up medical system
$72 office visits for him to look at my foot and talk into a recorder
$104 for him to remove the wrapping and partial cast and to put it back on with the same wrapping each visit

mattyg · Post by **mattyg** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:27 pm

My in-laws lived in the states for 4 years. My father- in-law found it cheaper to fly to Australia for treatment! No Joke!

But oh my gosh, the cries of "socialism" are driving me crazy.

and accusations of socialism and communism were often directed at him when he described our system.

What I don't get is that if you're an American tourist and find yourself in trouble in a foreign land (even if its your own fault) no expense is spared by the government to keep its citizens safe. However , if you get sick at home the government turns a blind eye to you.

In our system you only pay if you want a specific doctor/hospital and if you don't want to wait. If you are injured you call a number and speak to a qualified ER nurse who assesses you and if non-urgent directs you to a nearby medical centre or if deemed urgent notifies the nearest ER ahead of your arrival - and it is all FREE.

That's not socialism people! It's called giving a damn!

Post by **3DO Experience** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:38 am

Back when social security was put into place people were freaking out saying that this was the first permanent step into socialism. Obviously it wasn't but now when someone says the social security system is in danger of falling apart people cry about not having it. It will be the same with national health care if we ever put it into action. We've only been talking about doing it for 60 years or so.

Post by **Devin** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:43 pm

I truly feel for you Lemmi.

I think that I mentioned it before, but just for this thread! A relative of mine needed a hip replacement but kept putting it off (due to recovery time not being convenient!) until the pain was too much. Contacted the doctor and within two weeks the operation was done and after three months he was 100% fully mobile. Now this is no small operation, but thanks to the NHS (National Health Service) he got the most up to date prosthetic hip replacement, which is a bubble alloy so the bone actually fuses to the metal over time giving a strong bond. Also half a dozen home visits from a nurse to check on his progress. How much did it cost? Nothing, zero pounds to my relative and no worries. Health care is given freely and you don't even think about it in the UK, it's just there!

I was shocked how bad things are in America. Watching SICKO by Michael Moore first drew my attention to the issue. I think it featured a scene where some American guys were on vacation around Europe. Anyway one of the guys was messing around and broke his leg, yet even though he was not a British citizen the health care was free! It was a great feature and threw in to contrast how you need to question expense over general health when your an American living in America.

It's a crying shame how old cold war propaganda has been skewed as an argument against health care reform in America. This actually reminds me of a quote from Hermann Goering, although I certainly don't support the Nazi ideology his perspective does add resonance to the health care argument...

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Of course in this case it's being argued in the opposite direction but it still rings true I believe!