America should have annexed the entire New World

[Lightning]

The United States took over a lot of the Caribbean and Central American countries at the turn of the 20th century. We should have kept those. Also, when we conquered Mexico back int he 19th century we should have annexed it, instead of what we did do (install a friendly government). We also should have annexed all of South America and Central America, along with the Caribbean. It would be no different from now except the United States would be even bigger and better than it currently is. America is the best country ever without a doubt and the only super power left in the world. We would also help all of the suffering third-world countries in Central and South America (including Mexico).

We could have used Manifest Destiny and eminent domain as justifications to completely take over the entire New World, with the possible exception of Canada since it was a British colony at the time and that may have sparked a third British-American War. Also, perhaps not Greenland since that could spark a war with Denmark. Of course, we would eventually annex Canada and Greenland too, but for them we may wait a while. I mean it would be no different from now. We would keep the regional names and languages of the territories we captured, but merely make them states. For instance Brazil would still be Brazil, and people there could still speak Portuguese as a regional language (but with English taught in schools as the primary language). We would also respect and honor the local cultures and ethnic groups of the land.

Who else agrees that America should control the entire New World and that we should be one huge democratic country? Now, I'm not talking about a "New World Order" or any conspiracy theories, I'm talking about a good government, like the one currently have. One that is democratic and uses the Constitution. Perhaps in time we could even annex Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania, and Antarctica. Also, I'm not necessarily saying that we should right now conquer the entire New World, but that is of course an option. I am merely implying that history should have been different. But also, in real life, I hope America does do this some day. And I hope we eventually control the entire Earth, and possibly even beyond the earth.

[Vance]

We already have such an incredibly egotistical public consciousness that we consider people from other cultures to be kind of like pets. I think that's more than enough.

[Lightning]

We already have such an incredibly egotistical public consciousness that we consider people from other cultures to be kind of like pets. I think that's more than enough.

Why have them as pets if we can have them as slaves?

[3DOKid]

I'd never vote for Obama.

[3DOKid]

I work for a small American firm, who are forced by large American companies to do business 'ethically'.

Fair enough you might say. However, the 'ethical business' is all well and good where ethics count, but in countries like Greece, Nigeria and China, where what we call bribery is part of the course, business come a little trickier. The Account Managers in those countries basically believe they are now out of business! So I raised the question: "Who the f**k is America to tell other countries how to behave ethically?" To which I got a long tirade of the usual BS. Anyway, I was told I should 'raise a red flag' should I see anyone behaving unethically. Fine. Good. He had gotten my goat. Dispite my argument being weak and ill founded.

Being a pedantic little git, I created a red flag using a cocktail stick, some paper and a red marker pen. And then, while at dinner with the Chief Financial Officer (who had given the ethics presentation) i proceeded to wave my little red flag all through dinner, and the taxi and the hotel, every time he handed out a tip.

(He did not see the funny side, but I'm technically in the Tech Dept, so he can't f**kin' touch me )

[3DOKid]

PS: Plus our economy is doing better than yours. with that in mind I want to be annexed by China.

[Vance]

The fact is, we're at the apex point where the wealth divide is just nice enough that we are creating a system where ethics simply don't work. Most of the rent controlled housing in downtown LA is going condo to get around rent controls, and people who aren't rich are being squeezed out sideways.

While I like a capitalist market, my credit rating looks like shit because of this kind of sideways squeezing. A domicile, which is broadly speaking a necessity, is at the whim of private profit. Well of course the landlords are only making 1.2 million and want their 1.3. Where does it fucking end? I can't rent anywhere that does a credit check and I can't get a decent job because they do the same. Because some dickfaced yahoo doubled my rent and then performed an illegal eviction over Christmas holiday. I live in a residential hotel with two showers per floor. Sometimes i live in my store.

Don't get me started on insurance and the pre-existing condition that's slowly eating my cognitive processes. If Obama's healthcare is evil socialism, I say bring on the evil socialism because the insurance companies are no longer allowed to gouge one person so much worse than others based on factors out of their control. I can actually afford insurance again.

We have enough ethics violations in this country. If people feel their freedoms are being infringed, bring it up. I may be supportive. If it's the ghost of Sam Walton still trying to argue that he should be allowed to pay below minimum wage, they can do something with a rake and their personal area.

[3DOKid]

Banking in the US, seems very different to the UK.

You'd never, I'm pretty sure, get credit coverage from the distributers to open a shop without an A+ credit rating.

Anyway... Some woman in the US was explaining to me that she had $300,000 house, that she sold for $100,000 to the bank to clear the debt (on the house) and is now buying back the same house for $100,000 from the bank. Effectively ditching $200,000 somewhere. Yeah... didn't make sense to me either. (If someone can explain)

We can't do massive rent hikes in the UK, but we can do future trades on commodities. That's why much of the world can't afford the rice/wheat that there is a surplus of. Yeah - ethics!

[NikeX]

"Most Americans do not know much from the world.
Most Americans know only one thing about the world:

We are the good guys.

And that's beautiful, nothing beats a simple worldview.
If you know who's the bad guy, the day has structure."

quote from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4H_E8b-qmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOZd3iCknZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRWAyM26YV8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ9Amuri6G8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2ullkbVCL8

[mattyg]

Our country falls somewhere in between. I feel your pain Vance - due to a prolonged legal dispute with the bank I lost my house and my credit rating and to top it all off had to fight my former employer in court over unfair dismissal. Eviction is hard enough let alone with a wife , two kids and pets and to have it all slapped on you as soon as you get back from a weeks vacation so a 2 week notice effectively becomes a one week notice.

Our economy is doing just fine thanks - mainly due to China needing all the stuff in the ground we have to stay afloat. Healthcare is free , schooling is free and the government hands out interest free loans if you want an university education that you only pay back if your income exceeds a certain amount. Tried to explain all this to American friends once and they ended up denouncing Australia as communist.

Rents are scarily rising here but can only do so at a minimum percentage per year - which landlords are doing. The gallery/shopfront that I have been approved for is actually being funded by an arts grant! Interesting days ahead.

[3DOKid]

on the upside I pay $8.30 for a gallon of petrol. Meaning, a 55Litre /12 gallon tank costs around $100 to fill.

[Lightning]

Vance if we had such a health care system, the quality of health care would deteriorate, since instead of being payed based on how good of a job they do, they'd get payed a flat fee by the government. In America you pay for what you get. You pay for one of the best doctors in the world, then you get one of the best operations in the world. You pay a cheap doctor, you get one of the worst operations in the world.

[Lightning]

We already control the world culturally, politically, and militarily. So why not control it territorially as well?

[Vance]

Vance if we had such a health care system, the quality of health care would deteriorate, since instead of being payed based on how good of a job they do, they'd get payed a flat fee by the government. In America you pay for what you get. You pay for one of the best doctors in the world, then you get one of the best operations in the world. You pay a cheap doctor, you get one of the worst operations in the world.

This presumes that every doctor in the country charges according to some perfect rating scale that is imposed upon them.

[Vance]

What has always gotten me about this country is our abject worship of a free market... now let me say that I'm fairly moderate, even slightly conservative in a couple of ways... but I turn absolutely liberal when people assume that the greatest thing we could possibly do is remove all market restrictions that exist, period.

We don't live in a legal anarchy because that would be clearly stupid. Why we should leave the market to the victim of human nature is beyond me, because we ain't noble creatures. We have DNA that screams at us to conquer others for our own well-being. Civilization is about the regulation of those urges at every level.

[3DOKid]

We already control the world culturally, politically, and militarily. So why not control it territorially as well?

On what grounds military? Exactly...? I'd be interested...

Iraq has hardly been a shining example of American military prowess and neither has Afghanistan. Nor for that matter Vietnam. I mean, and I'm a firm believer in American technical-military superiority and I believe that the West, including UK, owes a big thank you to American Tax payers for keeping China in check, and all them other ass-holes that would either ruin Sunday(Muslims) or breakfast(Chinese) it's just that historically, the USA hasn't been so ace when it comes to war.

The Korean War, for example, you tried to lull the Japs into the fight, on your side, which they refused so you got your arse kicked, then won, then kicked again to arrive at the stale-mate we are now. Which is fine, but the enemy was a bunch of farmers.Which is okay but.... it's a mess isn't it? it is...

Then Vietnam? All the money and power in the world but... A big fat ass kick is what you got.

Then WW2. It took the British Empire (world power numero 1 at the time), the Yanks (numero 2) and the Russians (Numero 3) to put Germany back in the box. In all fairness, ww2 is more a testament to German gumption than American fire power. Then the same for the Japanese. Britain + America + Allies + Russians + 2 nuclear bombs to put a bunch of angry and hungry yellow Asians back in the box and then only then with a couple of Nukes you stole from the Germans. I Mean frankly, it's hardly glorious is it? The Japanese were starving and suicidal, and then 20 years later they were back building better cars (than all of us) and selling technology... (who really won... honestly?) (Honda NSX or Corvette or Porsche?... I mean c'mon...)

Where is your Waterloo? Battle of Agincourt ? Okay, I'm British. Britain is a small county, with small people, and when we lose, as in the American Independence war, we can say just that. We are small. But your not, your big, with lots of guns and money and shit... but where, oh Lightning where, is your conclusive victory?

Plus the British NHS has contributed enormously to world health. Personally, I'm well off, with a big house and fancy car, I feel no need to get health insurance beyond what is offered to me via the NHS. You're a fool to think the NHS is second rate.

You'll notice UK people live longer than US people in this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

[Vance]

I'm really fond of the NHS. I like when people try to claim that people like Stephen Hawking would be dead under that system... and he's been under it and praised it. It's a good system.

[mattyg]

My in-laws have spent significant time living in the US & UK and still find it cheaper to fly home for all medical - National Health works - no nation should stand back and watch their people suffer due to income. America is a great country - just dont get ill there.

[3DOKid]

Ask yourself this, how much tax do you pay? In the UK income tax on average is about 33% Then you have VAT, Council Tax, TV Licenses, loads and loads of TAX all done, you work half your time paying tax the government. It's in their interest to keep you alive (and paying tax)

[Vance]

And to sweeten it, your government actually goes and tries to reform things like the wait time for NHS. Over here, we have absolutely no interest in improving things because then people wouldn't get pork barrel money.

[3DOKid]

I'm as free market/capitalist as they come but free quality healthcare seems perfectly reasonable. I still have the choice to get private care if i want, but the few ailments I've ever had, the NHS did an A1 job.

[3DO Experience]

I say we should take over all of North and South America. Kick the people in Quebec who refuse to speak English off the continent. They can go back to France.

All Mexicans automatically become Americans, solving that problem. All blacks that don't have a college education we ship back to Africa. Then we start moving over to Japan we could use that too. I'm not sure what we would do with China... everything is cheap right now because they make poorly crafted crap through slave labor. The Africans we can just shoot. Australia can become a resort island.

[3DOKid]

As a spokesman for country that once had empire, I'd like to point out it didn't pan out too well for us. IIRC.

[mattyg]

As a spokesman for country that once had empire, I'd like to point out it didn't pan out too well for us. IIRC.

I prefer 3DO's American plan - while you lot were thinking "prison" they're thinking "resort"