This forum and privacy.

All general 3DO chat here please.

Moderators: 3DO Experience, Devin, Bas, 3DOKid

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3DOKid
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This forum and privacy.

Post by 3DOKid » Mon May 18, 2009 10:20 pm

Oh what? This admin game isn't all about banning teenagers, and ranting? Oh-boy!

Look, when this forum was founded it didn't really have a plan of any description (and it shows!) that said, what I have learnt is that it attracts many different types of people:

1) Collectors
2) Fanatics
3) Enthusiasts
4) Casuals.
5) Inquisitors
x) Criminals.

Some come and go, some stay, some burn brightly and fade-away, some just fade away, some (a lot) never post. (and the rest I ban aggressively)

My aim, my plan that is, is now quite firm. I want to defend all members, and protect them. I don't want this forum to to deteriorate in the way other niche older-gaming forums have. I like the way the Jaguar forums have gone, (just never mention the jagCF) I don't like the way the Assembler forums / Freedo forums have changed, as an example. And sure, sometimes it's quiet here. But it's nice here too and we're a little club, and it's a reflection of the sedate nature of the subject matter.

On one hand I want to protect all our contributors privacy and freedom, but on the other I want people to contribute. Outside of 3DOToday this is the greatest living library of 3DO information on the web, don't forget, if you can't get an answer here, you're unlikely to get it anywhere else. This is 3DOs last stand on the web.

Till now, policing the forum has been a stroll in the park, that was until yesterday when I was presented with something of dilemma.

NikeX recently posted some information in another thread that is a pleasure to read. I really enjoyed it and initially I was really delighted. That was until WindowsKiller (I run 100% linux/BSD these days) pointed out an infringement, potentially, on privacy.

I like both members, they've both contributed a lot, and I'm more than just keen to maintain their membership and their contribution... thing is I don't know what to do. What I don't want to do is lose either of them.

This thread is open to regular contributors to state their opinion, and it's only open to regular contributors. If your post count says '1' you can forget it I don't need the pious words of the unknown muddying the waters.

Okay chaps, (and Ms Chappess) what do you think? How do we go with this? We have no precedent for this.

1) MattyG invited RJ Mical (bless him, MattyG not Mical)
2) I wrote a letter to Trip Hawkins, and got a response but never posted it.
3) NikeX tracked down old 3DO developers and posted.

I guess what i am asking for is setting guidelines, I don't know what to say and/or suggest.

I really will value all your input.

Will / 3DOkid.

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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue May 19, 2009 12:39 am

So far nothing seems to be out of hand. X smudged out the e-mail addys and got permission to repost the info. One person hastefully posted a comment voicing a concern... it should have been a PM but many of us are guilty of making a post when it should have been a PM.

Following personal responsibility should be our guideline. You, Devin, Bas and I are the ones who will handle it on a case by case basis when the line has been crossed.
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Post by mattyg » Tue May 19, 2009 1:09 pm

OK guys my thoughts on this are well known but I would like to take this opportunity to repeat them. Just because we are as enthusiastic as we are about the 3DO does not give us the right to hound those who used to work for the company. By hound I mean disrespect privacy and a persons right to be themselves. A perfect example being the former 3DO employee page on Facebook which has been continually hijacked by over enthusiastic "fans". In all my dealings with RJ I have stressed the maturity of our members and our belief in privacy. I simply had the means to leave him a message about what we do and left him the choice. Fortunately a couple of things happened - firstly he contacted me and graciously opened up a channel of communication and secondly we found a few things other than video games in common. Our beach lifestyle here is not unlike Californian culture.
We must not underestimate though the importance of this website. The 3DO and M2 are important parts of popular history that are oft forgotten. Gaming is still not held in the same regard as music , films or television and risks much of its history lost. I'd like to think of myself as an historian first and foremost. In the case of Nike X and the documents - I have no problem - he asked permission and took further steps to ensure privacy. However , WK's points are extremely valid and should be applied as a general rule - but are not necessary when permission is asked and granted.
I think we must also change the way in which we admit members by having a couple of in depth questions at the entry point - to be discussed via PM only and only ever viewed for first time registers. This is to create a twofold effect - first - that we only get those who have read posts and can demonstrate a knowledge of the system and - two - to ecourage those who dont get it right to do a little more research before trying again. I dont think such a thing is necessarily elitist but would help establish the integrity of this forum.
This forum has been the means as to which I have been able to "meet" some amazing people from around the globe that otherwise I may not ever have stumbled cross. Without even meeting some of you I have no issue in referring to many as "friends" or "comrades" (Unholy thats for you!). This forum is in my opinion at a crossroads and in state of constant evolution. Now may be the time to review our mission statement and possibly even discuss. I agree with only multi post members being able to discuss these matters and as a transitory member of a number of forums and groups where I contribute little I certainly would not see it as an issue.
I for one - despite not seeing eye to eye with everyone (I see this as refreshing and healthy by the way!) - view this Forum as a dysfunctional but welcoming family :wink:
The technical achievements by many members cannot be overlooked either - my dream is to see someone here produce an FZ-21 or 35s that can play the Konami arcade discs into a TV with full functionality - thus producing what Panasonic wouldn't (not couldn't) do. As jealous as I'd be I'd also be quite proud.
And that..... ladies and gentleman are what we are about!

Never forget we are keepers of the flame!
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3DO is dead , long live 3DO
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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue May 19, 2009 5:45 pm

Wow matty, hitting the enter button would help my eyes. :wink: All joking aside if this route were to be taken it would make us semi-private. An invite only scenario should be avoided but what you are talking about sounds more like further screening of new members. Right now we have simple questions to keep out spambots. The personal PMs could be a good idea.

I am worried about those that are un-knowledgeable about 3DO and are just getting into it possibly feeling overwhelmed. This is a great place to learn facts about the system rather than some person's wiki that takes a bloated opinion and states it as fact. I think this could be a good idea, however I do see that this would need to be taken delicately, it should be more like a one on one conversation predeceasing the user posting. It should feel more like a welcoming than a screening.

IF, big if here, it's decided we go this route I will volunteer for this. I'm normally on here throughout the day so I could prob catch these without much delay. I'll continue this later, need to head back to work. (thanks about the thumbprint matty)
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Post by Mobius » Tue May 19, 2009 7:07 pm

Further screening of members is a terrible idea -- it will only serve to shrink the community. 3DOkid's right, we're pretty much the last vestiges of the online 3DO fandom. The last thing we want to do is make it harder to allow other people in.

As far as privacy concerns go, if you get information from an insider, get their permission to share it publicly. And when you do post it, be sure to include a disclaimer on your post that you received permission to post it. Any post that doesn't have the disclaimer should be assumed to be posted without permission and deleted.

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Post by Trev » Tue May 19, 2009 7:34 pm

Mobius is right ... we can't discourage growth any more than we can see regular contributors pushed out. Like 3DOExp, I encourage pm's first. And no ban should come w/out a warning, especially given the lack of specific guidelines (which for 2+ yrs have not been needed) Perhaps a dedicated rule sticky is finally neccesary? Anyway, I love this forum and what 3DOKid has done with it (like Matt, I feel like I've made friends here) and I hope it, and the 3DO community, only gets bigger.

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Post by UnholyTancred » Tue May 19, 2009 8:01 pm

I agree 100% with Mobius.

Screening members is bad. I mean, do we have anything to hide? Of course not. It's not like this is a warez forum. It's just 3DO fans talking about one of their favorite gaming consoles.

After all, it's not like this is the most popular forum on the internet. We've been around for what, 2 years now? And have 299 registered users. As 3DOkid has stated, some have never even been active.

As Mobius stated, if the user does receive permission to publish then he should be able to publish and include a disclaimer.

I am against the idea of mods PMing new members. It may seem overwhelming and discourage them from being active contributors. It's like when I try to join a socialist organization, perhaps a poor analogy but bear with me. I want to take things easy at first, go to some meetings, talk to some lower ranking members, etc. I don't really want to make my presence known because I'm the new guy. I don't want any pressure on me because I know I'm not as theoretically advanced as other members might be. What completely discourages me from joining an organization is if on the first meeting they have me meet the head honcho of the New York branch in a one to one conversation, then have me talk to the 2nd head honcho in the same meeting, then get told that I have to read this big stack of books on the party history, then regularly meet with the 2nd head honcho closely discussing these books on the party history.

Boring, overwhelming, and intimidating.

Same thing can be applied here. Let new users take things casually at their own pace. All of our mods and admins are active so they will be able to root out any bad apples. Members don't join too often and I don't think we should scare them away.
mattyg wrote:Without even meeting some of you I have no issue in referring to many as "friends" or "comrades" (Unholy thats for you!)
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Post by NikeX » Tue May 19, 2009 8:29 pm

This convinced me. I'm overwhelmed. So, I took all letters offline. Reason is what I've pm'ed 3DOKid: Something like would be a bad reputation for the forum. I forgot about that. So, it's up to the 3DOKid to put them into a password secured sector. Only the photo will remain.

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Post by mattyg » Tue May 19, 2009 9:19 pm

I think I've been misunderstood on the PM bit. My idea was only that the nature of the questions be decided via PM then posted at the forum's first register so a cursory glance or use of the search engine didn't give the answer away. Now I don't propose the sort of question that is as difficult as naming wiring sequences but just being a little more specific than what is there. Maybe we do want people to view bloated Wiki entries prior to coming so we can blow them away with the truth.
Its just my thoughts
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3DO is dead , long live 3DO
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Post by awbacon » Tue May 19, 2009 10:28 pm

I dont think screening members would be effective at all.

I also think that the posting of those emails, as long as NikeX had express permission by the other party, was perfectly fine as well.

If things cant be discussed out in the open, people w/ info/protos/that D2 beta I always wished for will just zone out, and keep all that fun info to themselves.

Yes..its not appropriate to hound anyone that has a connection w/ the 3D0 system and games.

I didnt see a need to remove those emails, as long as you did have the permission

Just my 2 cents

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Post by 3DO Experience » Tue May 19, 2009 11:30 pm

ok continuing from before, the PM idea shouldn't be this big interrogation or a history lesson. Just a "Hi, are you new to 3DO? Do you have any questions I can answer for you? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.". Spammers still get through even with what we have in place now, this would definitely stop them.

This is a fragile matter and shouldn't be taken lightly. Ultimately it will have to be decided on but I think it should be used more to encourage reading posts before posting repeats (the platformers post is a recent example), not needing to demonstrate a terribly large knowledge of the system. People do learn by coming here.
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Post by Mobius » Wed May 20, 2009 12:32 am

3DO Experience wrote:ok continuing from before, the PM idea shouldn't be this big interrogation or a history lesson. Just a "Hi, are you new to 3DO? Do you have any questions I can answer for you? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.". Spammers still get through even with what we have in place now, this would definitely stop them.

This is a fragile matter and shouldn't be taken lightly. Ultimately it will have to be decided on but I think it should be used more to encourage reading posts before posting repeats (the platformers post is a recent example), not needing to demonstrate a terribly large knowledge of the system. People do learn by coming here.
If you want to greet new members, and see if they have questions that's totally cool. What I was responding to was this suggestion from mattyg:
I think we must also change the way in which we admit members by having a couple of in depth questions at the entry point - to be discussed via PM only and only ever viewed for first time registers. This is to create a twofold effect - first - that we only get those who have read posts and can demonstrate a knowledge of the system and - two - to ecourage those who dont get it right to do a little more research before trying again. I dont think such a thing is necessarily elitist but would help establish the integrity of this forum.
This basically amounts to requiring people to pass a quiz before they can join. And if they don't pass, they have to go study. That will definitely discourage people from joining.

NikeX: As long as you had permission to share those e-mails, go ahead and put them back up.

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Post by BryWI » Wed May 20, 2009 2:31 am

I think we should just slightly modifiy/make some rules for stuff that has happened and then just leave it at that. When something does occur the situation can be handled and a rule can be made/modified. It's not like we have dictators running this place. The events that have recently happened, the admins were open to the views of the members of the community. Just like this, we are having an open talk about this. It's not even in a hidden forum, it's as public as it could possibly be. This is just as a community should be.

This is a great community. The members who have been here a long time contribute a lot of good discussion and ideas. As a community I think we are doing great and we shouldn't focus on the negative. We should deal with the situations as they come up instead of fearing the worst.

I dont think we are in need of any sort of screening process, Just a clear and short list of revised rules. One rule I do propose is that the user has 5 days to post something (any message or in the introduction thread will be fine). If that isn't done, their registered account will be deleted for non-use. Not banned. If someone just wants to read the forum, they dont need to sign up anyways. When they do want to post they can re-register. I do believe they make auto-prune (deleting no post memebers) mods for phpBB, I haven't installed one before though so im not sure how well they work.

I know I don't contribute a great amount of meaningful stuff around here but this is my 2 cents. I've read just about every post on this board, even the ones before I signed up (I was a couple weeks late to the party, sorry!). So when I say this a great community and a great job is being done, I do mean it.

So all I got left to say is...

Carry On!

Bryan will step off his soapbox now! finally!

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Post by 3DO Experience » Wed May 20, 2009 3:55 am

Mobius wrote:This basically amounts to requiring people to pass a quiz before they can join. And if they don't pass, they have to go study. That will definitely discourage people from joining.
I def agree with you there, hence my altered view of PMing before posting.

Bry, I think that Kid doesn't want to delete accounts that have no posts, even if a person joins and never posts anything they are not making any problems. Perhaps posting in "Introduce yourself." should be required before posting in other areas? We do have an auto pruner that is currently not in use.
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Post by Tears of Ash » Wed May 20, 2009 10:56 am

Generally speaking, if you tell a source that you're asking for information regarding an article/story/etc you are legally allowed to quote and use what they say. Whether it's an email, private message, or whatever. As long as you let the other person know that what they respond with will be used in an article on the internet, you are legitimately allowed to use it. Otherwise, it's an invasion of privacy.

I don't really know what happened the other day, I can only gather from what I've read here. So that's all I really say about that subject. It may be totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, but maybe not.

As for screening members, I don't think that's a good idea. Private forums usually decrease in traffic until they become desolate wastelands. It's not like this is neogaf, where every email has to be double checked, and each user gets approved to help maintain the community standards.

It's ultimately not my decision though. As more members make their way here, you will run into different sorts of problems and you will have to deal with each of them. There are always certain safeguards you can put in place, but they key is knowing what will work best for the community at large.

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Post by 3DOKid » Sat May 23, 2009 8:45 pm

Just a minute. They have standards at Neogaf? I remember waiting three months to get the go ahead, and then ... well.

i don't want people passing a test to join. However, I do like the idea of greeting. That's sort of friendly right?

NikeX, to clear up the whole issue of you posts, why don't we ask the people in the emails to comment on here? I'd be interested to hear their point of view. Just a thought obviously.

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Post by Tears of Ash » Sun May 24, 2009 12:41 am

3DOKid wrote:Just a minute. They have standards at Neogaf? I remember waiting three months to get the go ahead, and then ... well.
That's what I was talking about =\

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Post by Devin » Thu May 28, 2009 8:43 pm

Is this a bad time to mention that a company representing male erectile dysfunction will be sponsoring 3DO Zone?

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Post by 3DOKid » Thu May 28, 2009 9:58 pm

That's it, I'm out of here.

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Post by BryWI » Thu May 28, 2009 10:40 pm

Can you throw in your towel so I can steal it and sell it on ebay? Thanks! heh.

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